48: Jonaed Iqbal: Founder of NoDegree.com; Untethering from the Template South Asian "Doctor / Engineer / Failure" Career Menu

0:00 As a South Asian, I thought there were only three career choices, doctor engineer or failure, and then I have to go to a top-ranked University. Are you telling me, there are other options, what's it like to interview, MMA champion, Demetrious, Johnson, scribe, media, CEO, Javon McCormick, and other notable folks without a college degree and what can they teach us? How can I leverage? LinkedIn? And Twitter to 10x my career advancement strategy and this guy started a site called. No degree.com. Is he Completely anti-education, stay tuned. As we touch on these and many other topics on this week's episode of untether your life.

0:46 Welcome to untether your life, a show that empowers you to own your own health Break Free of templates for managing physical and mental wellness and looks at Key issues, impacting the South Asian diaspora. I am your host nikhil torso car and I'm passionate about the power of conversation to catalyze change. One of the main objectives of untether. Your life has to shine a light on members of the South Asian diaspora, who have broken free of The Limited quote. Doctor engineer failure menu of career options, in which one self-worth is dictated. By the US News and World Report ranking of their undergrad or graduate alma mater. As such. I was delighted a cross paths with genetic ball. Today's guest tonight is a you map, certified career coach who has helped hundreds of candidates, land jobs interviews and promotions at Amazon Google, Microsoft meta, Spotify, and other top firms Janai. It is set on shattering the stigma associated with hiring people without College degrees.

1:42 It's no surprise that he founded no degree.com a platform with job listings that don't require college degrees and no to answer the question in the intro, he is not anti-education. In fact, he holds a master's degree in Actuarial science from Columbia University and his bachelor's at Queens College. He spent some time working in corporate and works with many candidates possessing college degrees. He just understands that the college route isn't for everyone, regardless of academic background. Everyone has something to offer and deserves meaning. We'll work, especially since a degree isn't always an accurate representation of a person or their intelligence. So whether you have a degree or not Jenai, it can help. And with that, let's get untethered.

2:23 Before we start, I would love if you could, just tell us a little bit more about your background. We just got. Yeah. So I'll tell you, I'm the founder of no degree.com which is a career platform for those without college degrees. I'm the host of no degree podcast where I interview people about college reviews and have them share their stories. I started no degree.com because I saw that there was a lot of opportunity for those without college degrees, but there wasn't a lot of awareness or education like, people don't realize, how do you become a welder? How do you become plumber? How do you become an electrician? How do you work? And sales,how. Do you become a developer? How do you do all these careers that you can get without a college degree? And how do you move up in them? And there's so many interesting jobs. I know people, you know, who are making like a million dollars, working jobs, not even like, businesses working jobs because they're in sales, they moved up in their careers and they made the Right Moves and a networked and they demonstrated their skills without college degrees.

3:16 Now, the funny thing is, I come from that Southeast Asian background. I was born in Bangladesh. I came to New York City. When I was Three and I grew up with school school school. You know, that's the most important study obey read. And the fact is, even if my parents weren't like that, I would still read. I was still like a reader, right? And that's something I enjoy doing. And, you know, I did good grades. I want the specialized high school in New York Bronk science science, right? Yeah. So it's like a top 20 30 High School in New York City. And I didn't like the culture of that school because it was like, oh my God, you went to Community College or a failure. Oh my God, you didn't take all these AP classes. Your life is yours. No versions of what it means to be a. Yeah, that's right. And then you grew up with parents were like, oh my God, like ice to get good grades and it was like, oh, you got a 94?

4:01 All this guy 96, you got a 98. Oh, this kid got 100, you got 100? Oh, why don't you do some extra credit to do? It's like, why that's just dumb? I got 100, like, after certain point to diminishing returns, like, look, try to do well as well as you can't. After certain point, it just takes way too much effort. You know, just like, hey to get in shape versus to get an extreme Elite shape, right? It's a whole difference, right? One takes, maybe like three hours, five hours a week, right? Working out. And the other thing could take 15 hours of like a 20 hours of the dedicated routine and crazy discipline. Like it's interesting because the Bronx Science like is it mostly kids who are on scholarship? Well, it's obviously it's different. No, no, there's no scholarship so you have to test into the school so it's a public school but you have to test in. So there are a couple schools that you test in Stuyvesant has the highest scores.

4:48 Dennis Bronx, Science, Center's, Brooklyn, Tech and some others they can change over a year. So Even if you are rich, you can't get in unless you passed the test. So, whatever. I got high enough and they were kids who didn't really good in grades who studied, but they just could not pass the test or whatever, get the appropriate grade. So it was like that and the culture was just like you had a whole mix, right? But overall, it was a culture of like, you got to go to this school. So they worship to put, they worship these people and it's just sad where it's like if you were, you know, going for a job that doesn't necessarily pay as well or you choose a different career. And they had so many misconceptions, oh you're a plumber or Whatever. And I do plumbers, making a million dollars a year. So it's like who are you to judge? You know, just because you're an analyst at some big company that over works you and all that.

5:31 So I just didn't like the culture. I was part of the wrestling team. That was my favorite part of bronc signs and that's all I cared about. And that's where I learned the most. I learned way more from wrestling than I ever did for many of the classes and the teachers are assholes because they would give like three four hours a day of homework and it's like, dude, I'm traveling 90 minutes on the train. I get out of wrestling practice 637. I'm getting home like at 98 39 and then you have four hours. I sleep like four or five hours. It like ruined my burger. Yeah, and teachers, they're just jerks. And then they started giving detentions if you were late to class, so the subway could be late and you're like two minutes late, three tight lateness is detention. If you get detention, you can't go to practice. It's like all these things.

6:13 It was like a prison. It was the worst time of my life, right? So going into college, you went to Queens College, as I went to Queens College as undergrad and As grad, let me, tell colleagues of Breeze like a breeze, like I got like a 3.8 GPA and like, I Ace my classes like, it was so much easier because I was actually getting sleep, like, right? It's amazing. The restorative power of sleep. I mean, it's something that it's so messed up in our culture, man. It's just like sleep deprivation. I mean that's kind of seen as a badge of honor it on it as I was telling you before. I mean, our podcast is all about mental health and people neglect, all this stuff they go. Go into working out like crazy. They go into like all these supplements and stuff and they neglect things like sleep.

6:58 And you can obviously attest to the fact that that's it's terrible for you. Yeah, just curious, I had. So obviously you've got no degree right now and I think it's an amazing message, you've got, and it's very valuable. What was your perspective on career? And as we talk about the template or definition of success in college, walk me through a little bit about that because I know as South Asians In New York City. I'm sure it's a very competitive environment. So look for my definition of success, I have high standards for myself, but my standards are not Society standards. Like sure. For me, it's like when I was resting, I was captain of the team, but I was like, I want to be the best because I love the sport and that was something I truly enjoyed. So for me, I hold a high standard for me and that because I enjoy it, but for me, success wasn't necessarily the title and all that.

7:46 I would just like, yo, I want to make some money and I want to save it and I want to invest it, and I want to have freedom. That was my definition of success. I never subscribed to my parents thing. I just ignored it. Like I don't, listen to my parents advice, I guess like doctor and I was like, you know, I don't want to do that. That's not me. That's not my personality and I'm so glad because had I become a doctor, I would be stuck and not that we don't need doctors and all that. But so many doctors and so many people in dentistry and all these things, they do it because of the parents, there's not passion for the career. It's not because they want to help people, right? That's because they like the status. Yes, they provide a value to society but they do it just because like any other person does the job, right? And so, Yeah. So that was my thing. I thought an action was a good career was like look, I liked it because you pass exams and did all that.

8:29 But then I realized I'm like not a corporate person. And even now that I have a job, just because of whole life scenario, I work for blockchain company, so super flexible like they don't mind that I podcast in the middle of day, they like support the podcast was like a corporate wouldn't do that. So I tell people doesn't matter what your definition of success is you follow, if you believe being a doctor and but you like that status, good for you, but don't push. Other people towards that definition of success. Let other people have their own definition of success because we need people to finding success in different ways. And the other thing is there are some things I subscribe to. I'm very competitive and other things I'm not and it's okay. You need people to have different passions and different ideas. Yeah, absolutely.

9:10 So, tell me a little bit more about like the Genesis of the origin of no degree. So I was on ready, April, 2014. Someone asked for those of you without a college degree, who make over six figures, what do You and how do you get the job? I was reading the answers is like, I'm a claims adjuster, I'm a plumber, I'm an elevator repairman, I'm a surveyor. And I was thinking, like, no one grows up and says, I won't be a surveyor. No one grows up and says, I want to be a claims adjuster and all the answers was, how did you get the job? Oh my uncle, my cousin, my neighbor, my friend, it was. All right, place? Right time. So, I was like, what? If you don't have that Uncle cousin or neighbor, what do you do? And I was like, you're stuck and I was like, why can't I be the uncle cousin?

9:51 Her friend. And then the other thing is there are so many hard-working people who work in retail, like a Dunkin Donuts like a Best Buy all these things who have a lot of capability but they're stuck. They know how to work. They don't have people guiding them. So I was like, why can't I be that guy? Then, you know, I bought the domain name node review.com, it was like 1,400 bucks. Mmm, and it was just a bunch of years of research and just growing as a person and I quit my job in 2018 for years full-time, entrepreneur. Now I got a job again, just again. Life happens but you know it's going to work out so I'm happy but it's a long road man, this long? Yeah, yeah, I saw that you made like the, what is it? The top 100 LinkedIn, career has welcomed 200 to get 200.

10:34 So I was 145, but I could make the top ones. I've been slacking on LinkedIn, the last year, so I'm going to try to make the top hundred. Yeah. I mean it's true, if people see like there's always that image of the iceberg, right? When they see like the summit or the peak of the mountain and then they don't see the foundation and all the struggle in the hardship that that went to it, right? And it sounds like that's something that you're pretty familiar with. I mean, sort of having it sounds like no degree is gone in a lot of directions. The podcast is kind of how I came to know. You actually I think we had connected because we had some common connections on LinkedIn and then close interesting with you is you were had a pretty good credibility in a pretty good brand on LinkedIn and then you decided to try to boost your brand on Twitter and it sounds like that that's gone pretty well.

11:18 Tell me you're like views on like social media in terms of like, How it has shaped the business like in terms of how you're advising clients on how to leverage it and what your journey with social media has been I got on LinkedIn in February, 19. I know Gary Vee said it somewhere. I learned that the organic reach is high and then I was answering questions on Korra before I was on Instagram before that. So I was like you know what forget Instagram let me go on LinkedIn. Instagram. I'm competing with girls with big pots and celebrities a Trappers and athletes, and I was like LinkedIn, I'm competing with the kalends. I was like, I can be The camera, right? And then I was like, LinkedIn is a more career based social media platform and it's perfect for no degree.com.

12:00 What I started with was I see to 100 comments a day on LinkedIn. Oh, wow, anybody who wants to go on any platform? Well, not any platform but LinkedIn Twitter start with even 30 to 50 a day like people want to grow, but they don't want to put in the work because I love building others. So I'll do 100 comments day, and not even post content for months. I would comment, comment, comment, people knew me just off. Headline and they saw that, I was part of God. And even now I still do comments you know right. Just not at as have rate. And then even when I was growing on Twitter, 50 to 100 comments, I'm talk about supporting others. Sure. Now, I toned it down but how I approach content is first learned, the language of the platform what are people looking for? And I don't go for hacks.

12:43 Like they're easy hacks to grow right on LinkedIn. You could post crappy quotes that don't have much substance like be kind to everybody, right? You can grow. But my thing is He's just like I want to grow because people like you know this guy is actually giving good Insight. Like I'm learning something from him. This is something I didn't think about or wow. I've had this thought but I didn't put it into words, June. I had put into words and you know actionable advice. I don't want to get fluff advice like the feel-good color you want to be authentic to? Yeah, I mean authentic and valuable, right? So I want to share a real story. Then you have to find your own voice. Like, I found my own voice and I'm very comfortable with myself, so, don't copy me. I Inspiration from others. But I don't necessarily copied them. I get an idea of like you.

13:26 This is what I like and here's how it's going to work for me. I don't like this part. I like this part about them and then just testing what works. And then really go and deep. I mean, I took 100 our course on Facebook ads, that gave me some insights into algorithms and then I try to find the right balance of like, how I can work the algorithm but also create good content and deliver value because there's ways to work the algorithm while gaming it, but I tried to organically work to it in a way that I am. Building a community because once you build a community, your algorithm proof. True true. Yeah. In terms of content creators, you mentioned, Gary Vee. And you've definitely got a very unique brand. But are there any content creators that have inspired you or any messages that I think of some sort of helped you and building out your brand? Yes.

14:11 So you know what? I won't necessarily give a name because smaller content creators inspire me. I'm not a big fan of large ones with teams and all that because a lot of times they have Very superficial gaming like, hey, look how I'm amazing and it's not taking my master class. Yeah, a lot of his virtue signaling, like, I'm a great person blahblahblah. So I'm a big fan of small content creators who are just supportive. We're just sharing their voice, who it's not about being as polish, but you're getting actionable insights and that's why I like Twitter. A little more. Twitter is like their content creators would never survive on Twitter. Because LinkedIn is like they found this Niche, but LinkedIn is the best content creators aren't on there, right there. On Twitter right there on Tick Tock there are these other YouTube more competitive platform. So I would say find your own voice, keep trying things, don't be afraid experiment but find something that feels right for you which of these has been your preferred platform if you have one.

15:08 Yeah, LinkedIn was the first place. It's the home. It's where I met. A lot of people, I will say, I do like Twitter more in some aspects, but LinkedIn still good, organic re still great people. Well, LinkedIn, I mean, what kind of annoys me about LinkedIn is it's kind of like, you know, they're trying to be more authentic but it's almost like even the authenticity is formulaic, you know? Like it's almost like every post has that syntax like it's always got that shocker line than you scroll down and there's always like and then you know I found my voice and I yeah you know even though I fell down a pothole and landed in the sewer this leprechaun save my life stupid.

15:51 Do you think we are? But I'm with you. I mean, I love Twitter and I think Twitter spaces. I think that's how you. And I actually connected because, and I think I might have said this on the space is, it's just like with Twitter, it can get kind of inflammatory, you know, especially after the last four years, you know, just the temperature is really gone up, right? Where people's emotions are high and they're tweeting, you know, political back-and-forth searching it, kind of incendiary. But I think Twitter spaces, I think it's great for people like myself. I mean, I'm pretty introverted. It's Thing, I'm introverted. But I enjoy public speaking. No, no, it's interesting. Yeah, sorry to cut you off. Yeah. A lot of introverts are great public speaker because I'm going to tell you something. So, this is a common misconception that people have people think that introvert means. You're not socially good, right?

16:38 Which is not true. You can have great social skills. It's all it means is social situations. Tend to drain your energy and drain your battery and you just need time to yourself that. You need that time where you're reading, where you're sitting on the couch and you doing all that. That like trust me, I don't know if you're in the mbti. Do you have like a Myers-Briggs type? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I tied with two like I had to even thing but I'm an ambivert so I'm neither in Exeter good situational. No, it's not even situation. It's so so, look introvert gains energy by being alone, right? And social situations drains their energy, an extrovert is the right. They need the social situations. That's what they live for that lives up that dream of.

17:19 Yeah. And beaver is like neither Don't need either. So I don't need that recharge and I don't need the people. So, the beauty is, is that I can talk to people all day without being drained. And I do enjoy the other situation, but it doesn't live in me up. I'll tell you. I don't actually don't like loud environments. Like I like talking to people, I prefer smaller more intimate. How have you managed to be a lifelong New Yorker, man? I mean, it's like, no. But look, I'm the guy who brings people together like, yo, come by my house. Let's watch this fight. Let's do this. Let's do that. So it's like I still enjoyed the thing, but I'm just not a partier. I'm not just That like, hey, let's go to a restaurant. Let's go like a bubble tea spot as opposed to the club. Like I'm not a club guy. I'm not like, let's go to a concert type person but I have been to my first concert in New York, like, whatever which concert was.

18:04 I, yo, so this power networking. Someone I met on LinkedIn, who I picked up from the airport. He's like, yo, yo consoles like? Yeah, sure. Well, who's the consi is like Nas and Wu-Tang? I was like, yo, no way the concert and I see nozzle Lieutenant. I was like, yo, that was like you said, you'd never been to a concert. Nah, nah, dude. A man, I haven't lived life, man. I'm just like a grinder and Poor and stuff like that. So yeah, nice and Wu-Tang. Wow, I didn't know that Wu-Tang were still without they still perform. It was like a New York State of Mind or and Busta Rhymes with it was a good concert man. Yeah, I was so scared. I gotta be in their 60s. Now, Duda like 50s and don't like, yo, we could do this 30 years. I was like, yo, that's crazy. And it was good. It was definitely like worth. I'm glad I went.

18:44 Yeah, you and I gotta talk later, man. I'm all about the food chain and now starts. I always loved it to link up with fellow hip-hop. Definitely yeah definitely but I wanted to step back because no degree podcast I mean is it exclusively people who haven't gotten a degree and they've managed to find Career Success or do you ever have people who have degrees or is that the selection criteria, obviously? Right now I keep the podcast, very specific. I only have people without degrees who have found success. Now I have had handful of people who have had degrees. One guy wrote a book called The Twelve lives about college. Another guy wrote another book, It's like, skip college for success or something.

19:24 I will make exceptions, right? Like, if they have degree, I think The Rock has a degree, but if I got the rocks on the podcast, I'm gonna have. I'm sorry. I'm sorry Dwayne. No, it's not, you know, we, we are so it's if I'm gonna bring someone on and break the rule, it has to be that they have a following that it's going to help grow the podcast. It has to support a long-term because if once I start having everyone it just becomes a general success podcast. That's like so old and it's not specific so it's like I want it to be more specific. Yeah, absolutely. And that was the next thing I wanted to ask you about is like, we launched this podcast and it's just been such an amazing journey because the conversations, I have what I'm learning the connections on forming the community. It's like this Force multiplier, right? Tell me more about sort of what podcasting is meant for you. In terms of the journey, you started the podcast, what two years ago, how long ya about what ringing man it's like, hitting your like, ya know?

20:22 What you've gotten out of it. It's meant so much, man, because I've met so many good people. I interviewed stories, I love podcasting. I love being interviewed. I love talking to people. I get so much insight into the journeys. Like, I'm always learning something new, was funny people, black hole? You're such an amazing host and I'm like, dude, I asked the same questions on everybody is like, maybe I'll change like one or two but a lot of it comes down to like I'm interested in the story. I'm interested in the guests. Like I don't even make money off the podcast but it's like I was still do it. Like there's no way I'm Stopping. This is something I'm doing. I don't even know when I would ever stop right. Mmm, and I interviewed amazing people. Like I got to interview Demetrius Johnson, he's one of the greatest fighters of all time like top five Fighters.

21:04 He was the first flyweight champion in UFC history. He set the record for title defenses or some like that, and I used to watch him in college, man. Me and my friends used to watch him and it's like yo I have his number now, he texts me said, yo come on my podcast and it's cool man. It's like podcasting enabled that right? Hey Sydney Be so many opportunities and its really opened me up because I had never would have known. I would have loved that. It's like, one of those things. Like, how do you find out you of podcasting, right? How do you find out? You love interviewing people. You say you just have to try it and I'm like, 120 episodes, but I'm still just getting started man. So it's like, yeah, I have so many feel like I want to get a Nas. I want to get something from the Wu-Tang Clan. All right. Mama. Yeah. It's like I hope to get it to one day where I have like a studio New York City and I get to interview these people and have the video and have a chance. Channel and it's like, I'm making money off the podcast. I could fly these people out and all that, but I'm excited, man, I get excited on podcasts, absolutely man, totally lights me up.

22:01 Also, is there any one particular guess? I always say? Like, when people say who's your favorite guests? It's kind of like asking a parent. Like, who their favorite kick his butt. If you are hard pressed to say, Hey, you know, this was a great conversation that I got a lot out of and that resonate with the audience. Yeah, Demetrious Johnson because I'm a big MMA fan. I'm an assistant wrestling coach and all that. So it's I see watch this guy, I watched his rise I've seen him and you know, and this like yo this is a guy watched him and you know the funny thing is he's one of the greatest of all time in his area and he still humble feel like treats me like I'm a friend like Ryan still treats me like as if I'm his only fan kind of thing, it's just amazing and then the other one was JT McCormick. He was a CEO.

22:43 He is a CEO of subscribe media. He okay dad had like a lot of kids, it was like 13 kids, his dad was a drug dealer and a pimp. He grew up in a very hard life in the 70s half black half white. And just like man, like he learned how many days each month had because they were on food stamps and you do months or 31 days they'll be hungry at the end of the month. So it was like he grew up a tough man and it's just like such a humbling story and it's one of those books like I shed a tear when I read the ending. Like it was like, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's incredible. I mean, I totally agree. I mean, I have this Love/Hate relationship with social media and Technology but I mean, this is Prime example like I would have never connected with you unless I was at some South Asian mixer and in New York City or something.

23:29 There's no way like you know, if it wasn't for like a Twitter space, I think it was. Yeah, it was that we met but you know, I think it is amazing. I try to really look at what it's doing for my network, just in terms of the potential for future collaboration. Not just between me and the people, but maybe it'll Inspire other people to start their own podcast or okay, tell their own story, you know, Oh yeah, the other thing about the podcast that I love is as I'm growing more and I'm getting busy and I'm charging more. I know there are people who can't afford my services, sure. But I want to make sure that they still have access to me in some shape or forms, and people ask me the same question. How do I break in? I'm working on an Exposé and I'll be like, hey, go listen to that episode and learn how he did it or learn how she did it, learn how they did it.

24:16 And that's fine. Now they still getting the advice. Oh, I have an interview. I'm like look I'm kind of book tour. Just how much Arturo. I can't afford that. I was like, Hey, listen to a third episode, how to prepare for an interview so I'll still give them resources and stuff because again, my goal is to help people. Yes, I want to make money but I don't want to do it at the expense of like forgetting about people and be like, hey, I only help your food make, you know, you can pay me like thousand bucks and it's like, no, I want to make sure that because I was that kid to write who only had, you know, very little and who didn't have that money, but do they not deserve opportunity? So I was like, I want to release as much free resources for people as I can. Yeah. It's like I think you were saying like your quality. Like, you're like giving is your Fuel right? Yeah, it sounds like that's kind of like a part of this whole mission and everything and so the podcast makes sense to me, I understand like, you know, the guess you bring on and sort of the overall message. I want to understand a little bit more about the actual company no degree because you did mention the resume writing service, but tell me a little bit more about some of the services that you provide your clients, I'd love to. So, I'm going to launch a resume course because I've done so many so that way people can do it themselves because it's like 45 hours of content.

25:22 It really covers everything so that you can really learn the ins and outs and it has like sample, resume sample, cover letters sample, all these things. Now, the other thing is, we're working on a trade school learning education platform. In that area is like, you'll learn what are the trade schools? What do they have? How much do they cost? What do people think about them? What are the accessibility options and will have online, courses will have boot camps, because people are dropping so much money on boot camps. And I want to get people to look at the other options before they come Um it to it. So that's one aspect. Then the other thing is it has job posting. So if you don't have a degree, check out the job postings. And then just a lot of content like what is a welder or how much do they get paid? How do you become a welder?

26:03 What do we overlap think about the career, who is it? Good for so we'll be like, hey look if you don't like getting physical, you don't like having odd hours. Don't be a welder, right? If you're a plumber or you're going to have to deal with shit, sometimes like it's just how it is. Like, we don't want to say rainbows because I've read books and will recommend books and resources. I've read books, one book was about firefighter duties. Twenty Pages. It was just like, yes, being the firefighters, a greatest thing to Manatee nothing about fighting fires. Like, it was just like, you know, it's just so amazing. I was like, yo, this is not a good resource. Oh, that's a real thing. And eventually, I want to just pour in partnership with a company like, hey, Google is hiring 20 people without college degrees. Here's a program and all that. Yeah, do you guys have like assessments or tools to help guide people like into a career path that sort of aligns with their souls and weaknesses?

26:48 I mean that's why I tell people, listen to podcast will be really talking about I tell what's Tory's you resonate with what stories don't you resonate with that should give you an idea. So I'm a you map certified career coach day actually use gallops strengthsfinder test and they combine it with some other. What was that? You said they have a very good thing and it combines with other areas and then it'll give you like a whole profile. Like hey you like work with people, you like collaboration, you don't like organization and for that profile was like the single most important thing. So, I will build out Services related to that, so people get a better idea. It's like, one of those things that people don't value it, man. They just think like, I just know myself in the psyche, these surprise like I wish I did these things earlier saves you years of your life to figure out things. Yeah I want to understand like I think I'd heard on a podcast. You were talking about some of the limitations of what job boards are.

27:43 Like today. Tell me a little bit more about that because like it's been a while since I've submitted my application but I'm thinking of like, indeed or Or this monster still around. I don't. Yeah it is. It is. What are some limitations you're seeing with job posting sites? These days, like the little like the go later. People with yeah. Go to LinkedIn. You go to a career builder, you go to the other sites, you can still get jobs without a college degree. But again an employer who's going there? That may not be their first option, right? Whereas no degree.com, you're going to know. This is employer, actually does not hold it against you that they value. Equally and these are pores are pro having people and they focus more on skills.

28:26 So that's like the value, just an inch and a lot more on content like the other places have content, but that's not the main focus. Like so I have the podcast, I'm going to have like a whole ecosystem on Twitter, right? You're not going to get to see. Open D on Twitter, giving proper advice, right? It's a different thing. So it's like that's where I come in. And this is you're injecting more of your personality sort of like your signature, your footprint and a lot of service. Hell yeah. Yeah. And then my thing is, I don't have shareholders, it's all me, right? So that's why it's like, I've been broke for a long time because of it, but man, I'm not going to sacrifice the mission to get money. Like if I can make money and do the mission cool, but I'm not going to make money just for the sole sake.

29:09 Like look, I charge somewhere around 500 to like 2004 resumes. But what I charge, someone who's like a high school kid that? No, I'd be like, look, I have someone else. They can work with you. Here's this like, or I'd be like, hey, if you can get like, 20 High School, I'll do a free session on resume writing so for whereas, like, if I work for a company, they're not going to do that. You know, it's everything has to be like, oh, this enhances our brand this does XYZ, it's like now, I love connecting with people who don't, subscribe to that transactional mindset. I'm thinking about like networking and you know, it's funny I meet with people and they're already giving me advice. And they're already telling me about some Mastermind class that got four five thousand dollars. I'm like, it's almost like you can't be a hammer in search of Of a nail. What's the saying?

29:53 It's like if you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. At the end of the day, the point is you want to help people and invariably it comes back to you because who knows that high school kid you're helping out. Who knows what they'll be off to do next. You know, when their next phase of life and then they could be a potential partner or refer business back to you. So I mean, it's always very refreshing. I think to hear from entrepreneurs, who have the Long View, but yeah. And then the other thing is I tell Look the podcast is free, all the articles are free like there's more than enough to at least make good headwind is so and it takes like someone's time that I have to pay or take my time. Like I do a lot for free but it's also like I only need to make money so I can reinvest to grow the company so I can give away more stuff for free. Like that's my philosophy right, right. And then where do you see no degree heading? Here you mentioned helping with trade schools, things like that. Like what are some of the things you see on the horizon for? Yeah, so look Resume course, that's definitely because I need money to inject back in.

30:55 Actually, here's the thing, I don't take any money from no degree. I just make money off my day job and I have to business on Cyber, I don't even take that. I just give my business partners that because since I have a full-time job, I want to be very fair to them and all the money just goes back into investing into a camera. This equipment in paying my workers growing, this or podcast ads, and all that stuff. And I'll tell you, I don't do these five year plans, and I'll tell you why. Because, who knows what's going to happen? I do more like, I mean, what anyone expected Good. How are ya? Like, you know, just everybody Five-Year Plan was terrible and then I have like a three-month plan. So right now three month is like, hey, get my resume course out by end of the year, just like start charging more for my services since I have a job and I've written over, 400 resume. So, get more high-profile client. Tells I've actually got more who are paying more, I got a few, so it's good.

31:42 Then the next thing is eventually reinvest money into content. So articles, all that stuff, do the trade school stuff, then grow that portion of the business. Stan SEO to get the site ranking more for more Partnerships and the end goal is to compete with indeed monster and all that. And then I'll always win on the diversity angle. I'm gonna be like, hey, where were these people ten years ago? They only care about diversity now because they see you as dollar signs and their virtue signaling, but they don't actually care about you the CEO. It's a marketing. Yeah, it's a, it's a marking tray. So it's like, do you trust this company to have your best interest once things changed? They're going to drop you at the dime, look at how their organization hires look at their board.

32:22 Do they have who they hire, who they work with. And so, I'm going to attack it from that angle and I'm going to go for it. Look, I'll create better content. I'll be better on Twitter, I'll be better on that. So it's like I want to be like big on Twitter, so I could just like, really just promote have good. Things have fun and do spaces for. I'm just giving away because if I can make money other ways, I'll just go on Twitter for free be like, yeah, what do you have show up to space? Go ask a question. Yeah, you mentioned one word that I did want to actually touch on his diversity. I'd be remiss because obviously you know both of us being of South Asian descent tip and that's kind of what our platform is about mental health. But other issue, but just within the South Asian diaspora, I want to hear your views on culture, your perspectives, in terms of the South Asian experience and careers in terms of what the pressures were and what the pressures continue to be for people in this demographic, like about getting the, you know, ivy league, degree, and Doctor lawyer and your track, it's broken like I An Ivy League degree, right? And my parents were so happy but eventually it does, it's not happy like this, it's never enough for them, right? Yeah.

33:28 It's like, you got to be a doctor astronaut lawyer. All this stuff and it's broken, because you just push kids into this careers. And then, these kids believe, they like it. And they spend this, you know, especially when your doctor, you're spending the six, eight, ten years in school, and you get the job, and it's different. It's not school. School is so different, and it's not the job, you expected, and then you're stuck in this curse, you get these People who are depressed. And then the other people is they people go for status. Like, I'm a doctor, I've seen people like, oh, you can only become a doctor, doctors are the best, and it's like, okay, what about the ambulance driver? Whose? No. Actually going on the scene, right? Who's getting paid peanuts and then what about the nurse that helps? What about the mechanic and all that stuff?

34:09 Who helped these operations. So it's like stop look cool. You did a lot, but it's like, I also think sometimes it's just long for the sake of being long and it could be shorter and it could be more effective because by friends and met Dental school. They said they forgot everything after that, I'm going to just let me put aboard, things change, and things update and I mean the Health Care system in this country. And this is a whole other topic because part of our business is stem cell therapy, which is providing people with different options, just besides surgery medication. You want to talk about broken? I mean, the Health Care system in this country is completely effed up and it's unfortunate because it's become like an assembly line and it's very similar to education.

34:51 Yeah. Where it's not about. About really helping the patient and no, it's not. I don't want to get on a big Pharma rant here, but the whole thing is drug companies. The saying is, it's not that they want to get people better, they want to sell people more drug. Yeah. Right. And so that's the thing is, I think it's important for people to wake up and sort of smell the coffee because it's like medicine, ain't what it used to be because it's just like, yes, that title May confer some artificial renowned or some Prestige, but at the end of the day, I mean, I think people have a very different opinion about Physicians than they did maybe in a simpler time. It's not necessarily the doctors fault. Yes. Just the way that the industry has evolved or devolve music. A the big thing that I want to like really touch on is that a lot of these people who do it for status, they just go through the motions.

35:41 Like, I've got a lot of doctors have this superiority complex, like, hey, I'm high on the food chain, you got to listen to me Global. I mean, look, there are plenty of other good doctors, right? Or they're playing Good doctors were really doing out there. You know, who are really trying to change the world. So don't think that all Auntie doctor. But then there's also a good just like any career. It's just like any profession. You have some people who care, some people who don't care, some people who are purely in it for money, I know a lot of doctors, they go into it and then for Real Estate. So it's like, they don't care about you, they care about making money. So it's like, let's get this stigma off that they're better people than you. They're not. They're regular people. They they're doing a job that's helpful to society. Because so many jobs are helpful. The janitor is also essential, right? The people who clean the Opera, Means writing nurses this.

36:23 Yeah, people make the devices. So I tell people like choose your career based on what you actually want to do what you're interested in what you like doing. Don't just choose it based on, you know what someone else says because it's your life. They're not going to be the one paying the bills and all that and you know, that's it. Rip off the templates. I mean, that's our whole thing is just don't go by what some cookie cutter definition, what it means, right? What are your other thoughts about culture applications? Yeah, I also think that learning should be, we should be more creative and push towards Other things because it's like I'm doing things that like very few people of my skin color doing. Right. Yeah. Like I'm going on Twitter. Yeah, we're one of the few there aren't that many Indians bengalis like that many people. Yeah, on Twitter or Instagram, which is unfortunate, I think Twitter is like a Hidden Gem, but yeah, it is. And then just like different careers, different things, different strengths, and it's okay not to do well in school. Like I tell people to try do your effort, but sometimes some environment is not right for you. You should push more kids.

37:22 A sports Church other things, right? And what I do know about law is one of the air, like it's like doctor denture. See like the sciences and remedy the finance, but law is like so I want to see more diversity in that. I will say that look put your kid, make sure whatever tutoring I'm fine with but don't overdo it, right? There's a certain point where the kids are going every day after school for several hours to the point where you do other activities because I'm telling you like the discipline I got from wrestling outpaces, the discipline. Like I passed the actual exam, I know how to study for hundreds of hours and Sitting down right other kids, it's just have them do things. They enjoy right, it's about life. You know, like I look back and that's why I'm an assistant wrestling coach, right? It's something I enjoy and we need more of that. And the other thing is, so you want to have that then. Yeah, the diversity and activity, diversity in all these things, we need it.

38:11 And I think as a culture, we just need to be more supportive of people who do different things, because they're so supportive of doctors and all that, and support of different thing, because, you know, What's very sad is that? I can't belie on my community to support my business, right? Bill pay for tutoring. They'll pay for this, they'll pay 200k for student loans when it comes to resume. Now we're not going to pay for now. It's not, you know, it's like interview clip. No, no, people do it. So it's like, I will never rely on my own community and that's something I will always remember that. I could not belie my own Community, because they're not the ones who are going to pay me. They're not the ones who are going to give me referral, and it's really sad. There's so many over here and it's like, I could do your resume and I was like, I'm going to get you a job. I'm Gonna Get You. A 10 20, 30 K raised or I could get you a job, you know, 50 to 1 to 200 K but you don't find that valuable because you're so used to only paying for certain things. So we got to stop being so cheap as a community and being reinvesting.

39:04 I mean, are you seeing a lot of South Asian clients for low degree or is it mostly from over here and there? But I mean, I did get a Southeast Asian client not from Bangladesh, but I do get in here, they're, you know, through social media, but a lot of them just have that. Hey, I could do this myself, you know, I could do a resume Don't realize like dude. I'm not just doing something that you could find on the first page of Google like I'm coming with user experience. I know the job inside and out but, you know, look, it's their choice from a lot of people, you've had so many conversations. Yeah, it sounds like it's not just something like you said, Eugene, just like type in how do I get a job? Yeah, I would agree. This is based on you've become a sponge that you absorb these lessons from some black people, right? We've been in the trenches.

39:45 Yeah, I've gone people raises in the 40K to 120k rain, so it's like you're not paying just for your resume, you're paying for the Ortiz, that lands you, that job that's going to change your life, right? Yeah. I will say though denied, I will say I am taking some heart in the, I think the tide is turning a little bit - guard in terms of what it means to be a successful South Asian and that was amazing. I don't think like first of all podcasting didn't exist 30. Yeah go but I'm just thinking about like, if I've been on this journey, 30 years ago, if I was trying to do this it was a different time, you know, there were not, you know, South Asian Mission in entertainment was AA. Puh from The Simpsons. Yeah, you know, there wasn't a lot of people like you and me on the big screen.

40:29 And now we have so many shows on Netflix. We have a lot of stand-up comedians and season Aziz Ansari and Hasan Minaj called pretty good. Brilliant. Brilliant. You know, I've been told like I'm like a poor man's well sometimes it's either Carlton from The Fresh Prince. Yeah. Or Aziz Ansari or some cross but yeah. But I will say I feel good about That that 30 years ago there was a very it was that whole BS model minority Mets, you know. Yeah, I'm just the kids who never got in trouble. We were always the straight A students and you know, now we're just proving that we can be just as dysfunctional as a people, right? Because let me tell you, there are so many dysfunctional people who have who are model whatever. Yeah, and they're dysfunctional once you know their home life. Once you know how they actually are, they're very dysfunctional. And it's like, we just need to be more real as a community. Just be okay with When things change our definition of success and just support each other more, right? Instead of tearing each other down. Absolutely, I'm just loving this conversation. But is there anything else you want to touch on? I mean, we've gone through so many things here, but my final message is doubled down on your strengths, find out what those strengths are and double down on them because that's when you're going to be happy.

41:46 That's when you're going to have more success. Focus on the long-term, don't focus on short-term. But when you double down and strands, you find out so much about yourself, you really push your boundaries, you really learn who you are, and you have a much better idea of what your purpose is awesome. I love that was beautiful. Well, thanks so much ahead and tell me again. How can people find you? Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. Should I add Jo and AED it fall? I'm the only person with that spelling if I may on Twitter No degree d.com. Check out the notary podcast and your favorite platform or you can go to know. Audrey dot f m--. And if you want to learn more about careers, check out groov.com. Okay, awesome. So Janai thanks again so much man. It was a real pleasure to talk to you and I'm really excited really supportive of what you're doing with no degree and really excited to see.

42:36 All the changes are affecting and all the lives are going to be touching in the future. So keep it up man, really appreciate it, thank you and if you ever want to do this again, love to do it. We'd love to love to. Thanks so much for listening and I hope you enjoyed that episode four more of these types of conversations. Please visit us at untether, your life that Co you can also find us on Instagram at untether your life, as well as on Apple Spotify and other platforms by searching for untether, your life. And if you did enjoy this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone who might also benefit. Thanks. And until the next time we meet stay untethered. Thanks so much for listening and I hope you enjoyed that episode four more of these types of conversations. Please visit us at untether, your life that Co you can also find us on Instagram at untether your life, as well as on Apple Spotify and other platforms by searching for untether, your life. And if you did enjoy this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone who might also benefit. Thanks. And until the next time we meet stay untethered.