51: Benoit Kim: Discovering More with a Podcasting Policymaker Turned Psychedelic Therapist, "Third-Culture Kid" and US Army Veteran

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,500
How can podcasters and content
creators leverage, social media

2
00:00:03,500 --> 00:00:06,800
to our benefit and overcome its
destructive Elements, which some

3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,900
Scholars have equated to a
casino, how can schools of

4
00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,600
meditation like the Silva
method, help to tune down the

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,100
static in the radios of our
brains and enable us to use 2%

6
00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:18,900
of our effort to improve 98% of
Our Lives.

7
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,800
What are the ramifications of
psychedelic therapy such as

8
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,900
psilocybin?
Which was shown to eradicate

9
00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:27,000
complex, PTSD and
treatment-resistant depression

10
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,800
for more than eighty percent of
participants in one landmarks.

11
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,400
Study and what is the Discover
more podcast all about?

12
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,400
Why is nikhil mentioning White
Castle Sliders in relation to

13
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,300
other podcasts out there?
Is he trying to leverage the

14
00:00:39,308 --> 00:00:42,500
popularity of the Harold & Kumar
films to boost this latest

15
00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:44,900
collaboration between two Asian
Americans.

16
00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,900
Stay tuned as we touch on these
and many other topics on this

17
00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:49,700
week's episode of untether your
life.

18
00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:02,100
Welcome to untether your life,
show that empowers you to own

19
00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:04,599
your own health and break free
of templates for managing

20
00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,500
physical and mental wellness.
And looks at Key issues.

21
00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:09,500
Impacting the South Asian
diaspora.

22
00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,300
I am your host and Kilt or
cigar, and I'm passionate about

23
00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:15,800
the power of conversation to
catalyze change this week, we

24
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,400
speak with Benoit Kim, a former
policy maker turned therapist,

25
00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:22,900
US Army veteran and host of The
Discovery more podcast.

26
00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,800
A show for introspective
thinkers with growth mindsets

27
00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:29,300
seeking.
Life stories, his 2017, near

28
00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:32,200
deployment to the north South
Korean border, caused him to

29
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,400
experience his first major
depression, which catalyzed his

30
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,300
Venture into the realm of mental
health.

31
00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:41,000
After a few years of work in the
policy sector, he pivoted

32
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,600
recently into the clinical field
as an aspirational psychedelic.

33
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,400
Assisted psychotherapist the
Discover more podcast launched

34
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,400
three years ago and Benoit
leaned into his curiosity.

35
00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:56,200
May the Top Apple podcast 200
charts twice in 2022.

36
00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:00,400
And Recently became a top 2%
globally, ranked podcast in all

37
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,900
categories.
And with that, let's get

38
00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:05,500
untethered.
So Benoit, thanks so much, it's

39
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,000
great to have you on the show.
Thanks think he'll very very

40
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,199
excited for today's
conversations and the

41
00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:11,800
thoughtfulness behind your show
as well.

42
00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:13,600
Yeah.
So do you want to tell us a

43
00:02:13,608 --> 00:02:16,200
little bit more Benoit beyond
the description that I gave?

44
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,300
I think that was a little bit of
a teaser because you've

45
00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,500
definitely got one of the most
interesting and eclectic

46
00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:22,700
backgrounds, but if you could
take us through a little bit

47
00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,500
more about some of those keep
bullet points as part of your

48
00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:26,600
journey.
Yeah.

49
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,400
The Eclectic background is a
good way to describe my host of

50
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,800
diverse curiosity.
But first and foremost, I think

51
00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,600
I'm a student of life.
I have endless curiosity because

52
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,800
I truly believe in the healing
property of what curiosity

53
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,300
means.
And when one person has a

54
00:02:43,308 --> 00:02:47,100
humility to wield that
Curiosity, I think you'll be

55
00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,100
often surprised by what life
presents you on the other side

56
00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:53,200
through all these gateways that
open up like you talked about

57
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,700
the community, the networking,
the insights, because I We

58
00:02:56,708 --> 00:03:00,400
believe the collective being of
us being humans and I don't

59
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,200
think any of us walk our path
alone which is, I think the

60
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,600
thesis of what mental health is,
that we are not alone and

61
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,400
through difference intuitive
Whispers, through my intention,

62
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,900
through the Legacy and the
impact I want to impart onto

63
00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:16,700
this world.
I went through a numerous series

64
00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:19,500
of pivoting and life sequences,
so to speak.

65
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,700
And currently, I'm serving my
clients through my background

66
00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:25,900
and identity as a clinical
psychotherapist while also

67
00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:30,800
trying to Trade a ripple effect
on the podcast, talking to like

68
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,700
mine of folks who are collective
impact makers.

69
00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:37,000
So, I was telling you a little
bit about show discover more.

70
00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:39,400
I just absolutely love the
podcast.

71
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,200
And the way I told you is I kind
of think of a lot of podcasts.

72
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,400
As, you know, White Castle,
sliders they're bite-sized

73
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,800
nuggets of information that you
can get, you know, while you're

74
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,700
getting your oil changed or
while your kids soccer game or

75
00:03:50,700 --> 00:03:52,300
whatever.
But yours is definitely

76
00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:54,500
something.
I kind of equated more to like a

77
00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:56,600
filet mignon.
It's definitely very

78
00:03:56,700 --> 00:04:00,300
Substantive, very weighty and I
always walk away with so many

79
00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,300
insights and so many either, you
know, people that I want to

80
00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:07,200
connect with or books, you know,
that I haven't explored the tell

81
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,000
me a little bit more Benoit
about discover more sort of, you

82
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,500
know, what was the Genesis of
that Venture, how it's evolved.

83
00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:17,200
And yeah, a little bit more
about what your intention is and

84
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,200
sort of how its impacted your
life and others.

85
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,200
Yeah, it's to all the listeners.
I just want to start this by

86
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,700
saying that I started my podcast
before the currents podcast

87
00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:29,800
Renaissance, I started the
podcast three years ago in 2019

88
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,700
with a very selfish and
self-serving intentions of just

89
00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,700
capturing some of these
conversations on a public

90
00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:39,900
catalog like a podcast.
I think all of us have these

91
00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:43,100
moments of profound insights
through talking to your loved

92
00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:45,700
ones or friends.
Maybe over a glass of wine.

93
00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:50,100
Maybe too many glasses of wine
but how many of us do we

94
00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:52,900
remember those conversations?
Because when you're in a diss

95
00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,600
immersive elements through this
respect and curiosity a lot.

96
00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:59,800
Of amazing insights and talking
points emerge.

97
00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,900
So I wanted to capture that with
a friends but then we pivoted to

98
00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:07,500
interviewing more world-class
experts from different walks of

99
00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:09,800
life.
And to your point I did keep

100
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,100
this podcast more long form
orientated even though it's not

101
00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:17,100
the best algorithm fitting with
this death of attentions in

102
00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:20,200
2022.
But I'm more about 1,000, true

103
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,400
fans.
I care more about cultivating an

104
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,600
intimate really like minded
deeply intentional community of

105
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,800
Fans versus hundred thousand and
as a by-product of that process,

106
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,900
if listeners can take away
something discover more about

107
00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:39,700
insights and stories and the
collective experiences that we

108
00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:42,900
all go through, even though that
made a difference, that's what I

109
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:45,800
hope to impart and Achieve on my
podcast for many more years.

110
00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:47,900
Yeah.
And you're doing a great job of

111
00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:50,200
that.
So my hats off to you, you and I

112
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,200
had met on a Facebook group, I
think there was a group for

113
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,100
podcasters and so, you know,
that's one of Of a host of

114
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,100
experiences.
I've had that have really

115
00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:02,800
pointed me to the beauty of
social media.

116
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,000
And that it is creating a
community and that its opening

117
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,200
your eyes to insights and
different walks of life that you

118
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,700
might not have had exposure to.
However, I listened to your

119
00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:17,300
episode, I think it was with
David Rudd, where he's talking

120
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:19,400
about how social media is like a
casino.

121
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,700
So there's obviously the dark
side to that.

122
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,400
I'd love to hear a little bit
more about your insights on

123
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,700
social media.
How it's played a role In your

124
00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:31,200
journey, not just with the
podcast but overall because, you

125
00:06:31,207 --> 00:06:34,700
know, as I was reading a little
bit more about specifically.

126
00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:38,200
This is a very interesting thing
Tick-Tock apparently is for

127
00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:41,900
people, specifically, in South
Korea, I guess has been helping

128
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,200
teens get better access to
therapy or it's been a form of

129
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,600
therapy or that which I found a
little bit interesting, but I'm

130
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,800
just bringing that up because I
wanted to understand sort of

131
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,000
what your thoughts are on social
media.

132
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,300
In terms of like how its shaped
your journey and social media in

133
00:06:56,300 --> 00:06:56,800
general.
Really.

134
00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:57,800
Yeah.
Great question.

135
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,300
So super quickly, I'm a third
cultural kid or Global citizen

136
00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:05,900
like I was born in Paris and I
lived in South Korea which is -

137
00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:08,800
City also spent six and a half
years in China.

138
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,400
So I speak fully Mandarin and I
conduct all my therapy sessions

139
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,100
in three languages but on the
same token nikhil I think in

140
00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:19,800
China which is the origins and
the creator of tick-tock, all

141
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,200
their Tick-Tock content is
extremely educational.

142
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,100
Hmm.
Like they don't have all these

143
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:27,000
12 year olds dancing.
It's extremely about a Todd's

144
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,800
Educators, all these very very
growth mindset content whereas

145
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,800
obviously u.s. is very opposite
of that and I joking talk to my

146
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,700
friends about how this is the
best new ones form of cyber

147
00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:40,900
warfare.
How do you beat out your Ivory?

148
00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:43,700
You wipe out the next
Generations Minds, how do you do

149
00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:46,100
that?
You strength and suppressor

150
00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:48,300
attention, spending to 20
seconds or below?

151
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:49,900
And I think that's what's
happening.

152
00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:52,900
And I think there's talks in the
US Congress as we speak that

153
00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:56,800
they may potentially ban or put
restraints on Tick-Tock for The

154
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,100
American Youth but on the same
token.

155
00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:02,400
That's how I view social media,
where I think you feel the same

156
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,300
way as a podcaster compared to
three years ago.

157
00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:09,600
The attention span of my
listeners who have honestly have

158
00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:12,600
tuned into these own and a half
long form.

159
00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:15,800
Pretty deep and heavy
conversations week after week.

160
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,200
But even now I'm seeing some
decrease in the retention for my

161
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,000
cordless centers, according to
analytics.

162
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,100
And I think that's because of
Instagram reels, how recently

163
00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:29,000
Instagram implements an You to
change all videos in all posts.

164
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,799
Two reels and reels are now 20
seconds, or 30 seconds or below,

165
00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:37,600
60 seconds is too long.
Now, it has to be 30 or below

166
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:40,400
and I've seen that with all
greater than engagement shifts.

167
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,400
So because of that, I think
social media usage has

168
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,900
contributed a lot to these
superficial relationships and

169
00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:48,300
human.
Just don't really know how to

170
00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:50,900
interact anymore.
Like, one thing, I talk a lot

171
00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:54,200
about with my clients is
closure, like, how do you

172
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,500
closure with today's
relationships?

173
00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,400
Man, sickly or friendship-wise
you, don't people just block

174
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,100
them off or ghosts or leave them
on read and never attends to

175
00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,200
that conversation because it's
uncomfortable.

176
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:09,000
Nobody want to deal with
uncomfortable conversations,

177
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,300
obviously, but then that
translates your real life where

178
00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:16,600
you don't know how to be cordial
and courteous towards a fellow

179
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,900
human being with the same
genetic makeups.

180
00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:22,400
And I think that's a real
concerns that have this far,

181
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,000
reaching implications more, so
than the attention spend more so

182
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,600
than all these Brain cells being
killed by social media usage but

183
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,200
it's very very nuanced.
And I think we're going to see

184
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,100
this on a macro level.
Few more years down the road.

185
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,900
Yeah, and I mean I think that's
a great answer.

186
00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:42,800
I mean I think that social media
is just a tool, right?

187
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:46,700
And obviously there's a very
Sinister pretext to this.

188
00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:48,800
There's a great book called
digital Madness.

189
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,300
I'm forgetting the author's
name.

190
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,900
But just some of the facts that
I've come across in terms of how

191
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:57,000
these companies have shaped
their Products.

192
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,200
I mean they literally have phds
on staff who are paid to

193
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,500
short-circuit our brain
chemistry to basically get us.

194
00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:07,600
So addicted to that dopamine.
Hit that.

195
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,500
When you see that red button and
I mean, this is the silliest

196
00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:12,900
thing, but like, I don't know
about you, but like on Instagram

197
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,600
you'll get an alert that say you
got to like or something, but

198
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,400
it'll just be something like up
fooled.

199
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,500
You you know, Boston chicken is
running a sale or some

200
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,500
completely inane trivial event
that is I was supposed to take

201
00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:31,000
you away from as we look at the
Eisenhower Matrix, you know, the

202
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,700
important and Urgent quadrants,
you know, just shifting us into

203
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:38,300
that loud.
Clanging noise that occupies our

204
00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:42,200
attention, you know, that this
gets us in this constant fight

205
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,000
or flight mode and looking for
dopamine.

206
00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:48,400
I think as a parent these days
that's because I look at it from

207
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,400
two different angles, one is,
you know, obviously as a content

208
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,400
creator obviously as a business
owner I see that social media

209
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,700
definitely does have have a lot
of benefits in terms of getting

210
00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:01,900
the message out there.
I think our former president

211
00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:05,000
whose name I won't mention the
be talked about it as basically

212
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,200
like having your own publishing
company, which is so valid.

213
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,300
You know, I think that a lot of
content creators, a lot of

214
00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:14,300
thought leaders scientists
journalists.

215
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,000
They are able to get their
message out in a more efficient

216
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,200
way.
But there's always too much of a

217
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,500
good thing, but I think for
kids, especially the onus is a

218
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:26,800
lot stronger.
Now on parents to really Shape

219
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,000
their kids values and teach them
that, you know, racking up 1,000

220
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,800
likes on that silly post is not
going to get you to the right

221
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,100
outcome.
You know, it's not going to get

222
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:40,500
you to that pot of gold.
So I do think that you know as a

223
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,300
parent as someone who shaping
the leaders of tomorrow.

224
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,000
It's definitely a harder task.
I think with that casino.

225
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,400
That's a dr.
Rudd had talked about before.

226
00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:55,100
Yeah, if I may just a few
commentary on that so on my

227
00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:59,100
latest episode with And Eddie
episode 115.

228
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,100
I interview a psychiatrist and
psychotherapist dr.

229
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:05,800
Justin, he actually talks about
the origins in the purpose

230
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,400
behind dopamine release and of
course a lot of people demonize

231
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,500
what Doberman is is simply a
biological response and a lot of

232
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,000
us called a molecule of more you
want to do more of what she just

233
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,700
did and dopamine release is
very, very instrumental to our

234
00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:25,200
human survival in the past.
Like in the cavemen prehistoric

235
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,100
time, when you found Meat Source
or a food source, your Doberman,

236
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,700
releases increases your
journaling, your stamina, your

237
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,700
physical pollicis.
So it allows you to hunt more.

238
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:40,100
We have the same response now
from these likes and Clicks in

239
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:43,700
social media.
So we have this molecule of more

240
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,700
being a release of dopamine and
we want to keep doing more of

241
00:12:46,708 --> 00:12:49,400
what we just did.
Wait has zero survival

242
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,700
implications, it does not help
us survive at all.

243
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,100
And I saw this interview by haha
Davis.

244
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,600
He's a pretty big Ian on
Instagram with 7 million

245
00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:01,800
followers, he talks about the
Illusions, a social media

246
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,200
presents to people.
He said he was broke living, his

247
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,400
mom's basement with 5 million
followers.

248
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,000
And he's a numerous paid gigs
and sponsorships.

249
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:13,900
I followed him for many years
and to that token.

250
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,400
Like, on my YouTube channel, I
started six months ago and we're

251
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,000
nearly at 1.5 K Subs, which is
great.

252
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,900
And in that sense the reels and
Instagram, they do provide this

253
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,200
virtuous Loop of bringing more
Scribers and engagement to my

254
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,700
podcast on the YouTube front.
At the same time, a lot of those

255
00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:35,600
engagements aren't as high in
terms of retention because the

256
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,200
attention is not the same.
So I think the public has to

257
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,800
recognize a lot of these
nuances, vs0, Instagram, or

258
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,200
social media is great or it's
the worst.

259
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,600
It's like truth is probably in
the middle.

260
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,600
Yeah.
And again I mean at the end of

261
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,200
the day it's a tool, right?
I mean, I think it's really up

262
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,400
to us as thoughtful human
beings.

263
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:56,300
You know, who are the most
evolved?

264
00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:00,400
Species to really exercise that
you know with great power comes

265
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,900
great responsibility to really
exercise that power that we

266
00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:06,200
have.
And it's not easy obviously,

267
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,400
because it's the rewards, the
low-hanging fruits.

268
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,900
Are there you talk in your
podcast a little bit with your

269
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,000
co-host about meditation.
And I think what I found

270
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,700
interesting was you talked about
how initially it was something

271
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:21,100
that you might have been a
little bit resistant to it

272
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:23,900
because I think your mind is
very active you know and it

273
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,200
sounds like the pendulum shifted
a little bit more and now You

274
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,000
are more into meditation and how
it's helped you and bringing

275
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,600
that up because it kind of
segues about for me.

276
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,200
Meditation is helped with
keeping those Sinister forces of

277
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,100
Instagram, and Tick-Tock at Bay,
just looking for something,

278
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:43,000
going deeper and more
introspective.

279
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,800
I'd love to hear a little bit
more about how that experience

280
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,900
has been for you with meditation
and how you shifted your

281
00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:51,700
perspective on that practice?
Well, in the kill, you did a

282
00:14:51,708 --> 00:14:54,400
deep dive, I did.
I've been departed from my

283
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,300
co-host like nine months ago
now.

284
00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:00,500
Now yep.
So yeah I first viewed

285
00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,400
meditation as I get this
traction even though it doesn't

286
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,600
really make sense, what I mean
by that is I'm a stereotypical

287
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,800
or archetypical thinker,
although everyone's on a

288
00:15:10,808 --> 00:15:13,600
spectrum.
But I fit the definition pretty

289
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,400
long.
So I always viewed my incessant

290
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,900
thinking and all these intrusive
thoughts as a competitive

291
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:22,100
Advantage.
I thought it's my way of

292
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:25,800
thinking on my insistent,
uncontrollable thinking as an

293
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,500
edge above My peers and I
attribute a lot of where I am

294
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:32,000
and are cool success to my
thinking.

295
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,300
It's the funniest and dumbest
thing I've ever thought about

296
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:39,900
because I've you meditation as
dialing down a radio signal if

297
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:44,600
we can visualize a radio channel
or radio and there's an ox and

298
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,500
you can almost turn down the
knob in terms of volume and

299
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,700
frequency and even channels.
And that's what happens to me

300
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:53,000
where it before.
I meditated three years ago

301
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:55,900
since I've been at daily,
meditator for about 20 minutes

302
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:59,000
every single Eagle day for the
last three and a half years and

303
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,500
I've you meditation has saved my
life, many folds.

304
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,900
And we can talk more about that
too, but whenever I met it to

305
00:16:04,908 --> 00:16:08,800
you first thing in the morning,
before I hit the gym, my chatter

306
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,700
or my upstairs is quiet, the
entire day.

307
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,400
What that means is when I'm
doing my work or doing my

308
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,900
podcast right now with you.
I have a zero other Chatters.

309
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:19,900
I have zero.
Internal dialogues between

310
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:22,800
myself.
I'm Craig completely in tune

311
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,300
with what you're saying, the
content and the intention of the

312
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:28,400
on your questions.
Responding within this container

313
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,000
of conversations because my
signals internally or dial down

314
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,700
through my morning, meditation
practice.

315
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000
So, in that sense, I think it's
what really allows you to be

316
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,900
optimal.
And I tell people who I think a

317
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:44,500
benefit from meditative or some
sort of a mindfulness practices,

318
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,800
I assume a very similar
questions is if I told you there

319
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,500
were an evidence-based,
guaranteed way using 2% of your

320
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:57,200
effort to dramatically increase
the scent of your life.

321
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,100
Would you do that trade off?
Most people would say yes

322
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:03,500
because 2% 498, that's how I
view meditations.

323
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:05,900
And therapy know it's
interesting that you mentioned

324
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,400
the radio analogy and I've used
that quite a bit myself because

325
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,400
one of the schools of meditation
is the Silva method.

326
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,800
I don't know if you're familiar
with that one, but it's very

327
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,900
interesting because Jose Silva
was actually I think radio

328
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:23,000
repair man so it's almost like
he brought that

329
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:26,900
conceptualization of the Mind as
an instrument, as a vice You

330
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,600
know where there is a lot of
static where there is a lot of

331
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,700
noise that needs to be
calibrated.

332
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:34,600
I think to get the best output
but no that's the great analogy.

333
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,400
I want to understand a little
bit more.

334
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,900
So meditation was one of the
things that you had talked about

335
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:44,200
one of the other topics.
You talk about is self care and,

336
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,200
you know, obviously being a
successful professional,

337
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,400
obviously you've had some very
impressive accolades in your

338
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,200
career, tell me more about what
self-care looks like in your

339
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,500
world and sort of how its
evolved over time.

340
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,900
And how its benefited you yeah.
Borrow this term from a fellow

341
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,000
friend and podcaster and Monte
Fowler.

342
00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:04,800
He calls himself the self-care
savants.

343
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,600
So that so I call myself as well
because I'm a veteran, first and

344
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,500
foremost, and I had my first
catalyzing major depressions

345
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,800
through my near-death,
deployments back in 2017.

346
00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:20,200
And I think, ever since then
near-death experiences, I view

347
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,200
my wall being as the number one
priority.

348
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,400
It's a non-negotiable for me,
it's not an afterthought.

349
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,500
Because I think a lot of us
underestimate our capacity to

350
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,700
grow and I mean to grow in terms
of compounding skill sets, but

351
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,500
also our distress tolerance also
compounds over time.

352
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,900
So a concrete example is nikhil
whatever amount of work you're

353
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:46,700
doing being part of the Geo star
marketing podcast Blog, the

354
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,600
book, the movie that's coming
out, you view the work or you're

355
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,800
doing now ten years ago.
I bet to ten-year-old younger

356
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,200
version that kill.
Can't even fathom.

357
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,900
The amount of work you put into
the Today as a father, as a

358
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:00,900
partner in addition to
everything I just mentioned but

359
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:03,800
now we view that as just a
normal Tuesday for a normal

360
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,700
Wednesday.
And so I think we have to

361
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,000
recognize how far we've come and
how much more work we're doing

362
00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:11,600
if you're being intentional.
So in that sense, I think

363
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,900
self-care has to be the first
step because when you're not

364
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,100
feeling well emotionally
mentally, especially at South

365
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:22,500
Asians and Asian Americans at
both of us that distracts us and

366
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,000
that relational stress spills
over to other.

367
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,000
Apartments and other areas of
our lives, there is no way, I

368
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,700
could be here 100% with you.
If I'm dealing with some sort of

369
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,900
a relational incongruent or
family drama in the back of my

370
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:39,900
mind, life doesn't work, we're
not robots, are he eyes?

371
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,100
So I think we have to self care
and make sure that we are at our

372
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:46,800
maximum capacity of our versions
that could possibly be.

373
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:48,800
And then through that, I think
we can do.

374
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,200
More about accolades,
achievements are Co success

375
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,000
whatever Ambitions you have.
Yeah.

376
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,600
Very very well stated and you
touched on the cultural element.

377
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,900
And obviously as you know, both
being part of the Asian diaspora

378
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:05,000
that's been a very big factor in
our mental health Journey.

379
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,000
You said you grew up in a tiger,
mom household.

380
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,900
And I'd love to hear a little
bit more about sort of what the

381
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,600
mental health Journey has looked
like for you being part of the

382
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,000
Asian diaspora because as I
talked about earlier, it's a

383
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,600
double-edged sword.
Because as a demographic, you

384
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,600
know, Indians Koreans from the
In diaspora, and we've had a

385
00:20:24,608 --> 00:20:27,800
very successful track record,
but the darker side of that I

386
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,100
think has been a lot of
suppression.

387
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:33,900
There's been a lot of stifling,
our feelings and disregarding

388
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,000
self-care that you very well
eloquently talked about the

389
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,700
benefits of tell me more,
because your story is very

390
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:41,700
interesting because as you
mentioned, you said, you're a

391
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:43,400
three culture kid was at the
term.

392
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,200
You used, third culture kids.
So your experience is a little

393
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,400
bit different from maybe I guess
the run of the mill but you know

394
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,500
obviously being of Korean
origin, I mean that has shaped

395
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:55,700
it so I'd love to More about
what that looks like for you

396
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,300
being of Asian descent in mental
health.

397
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,700
Yeah, I think it's a
double-edged sword packed with

398
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:05,100
more nuances.
Like the model minority myth

399
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:06,600
that I'm sure you're familiar
with.

400
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,800
We're sure a lot of us are Airco
Successful by this Asado metrics

401
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,100
with honorifics with fancy
titles degrees salaries, but

402
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,500
most of us agent disparity,
there are not doing really well,

403
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:22,200
like New York City has one of
the highest concentrated

404
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,200
impoverished Asian.
That's right.

405
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,600
And that could be found in
Oakland California, a lot of

406
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,600
these places and for Chicago as
well.

407
00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:32,400
But yeah, like I said, my mom,
she went to the best schools

408
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,500
possible at the best job.
She was a partner at her firm at

409
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:39,200
age, 25 back in her generation
that was unheard of ever

410
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,100
especially for a woman.
Yeah.

411
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:45,400
For one who has literally never
heard of so that's what I was

412
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,200
raised under that achievements
over.

413
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,300
Everything perseverance will
always Prevail and now learned

414
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:55,500
it always prevails until it
doesn't So, I didn't believe in

415
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:57,700
mental health, I thought, you
can just sleep it off.

416
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:01,400
Work harder, keep your heads
down, and I think that's how I

417
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,200
spent the majority of my
adolescent years and the first

418
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,300
half of my 20s, where I just
aimed at for achievements, I

419
00:22:07,308 --> 00:22:10,200
went to one of the best schools
in the world UPenn.

420
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,500
I know, you went to Chicago as
well, but then I realized that

421
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,100
all these expectations and
self-worth that attached to

422
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:21,100
these accolades or achievements
didn't really make me happier.

423
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,500
And of course, a lot of others
have said this before.

424
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,700
Or us.
So this is not original idea by

425
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:28,100
any means.
When you're expecting something

426
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,700
on the other side, the
anticipatory Bliss when you get

427
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:33,400
there, the Bliss is often not
there.

428
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:37,400
And instead I realized most
miserable people that I know are

429
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,300
the most successful people,
whether that's education's,

430
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,300
intelligence, whatever.
So, I think I needed that to,

431
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:46,900
for me to Pivot and obviously, I
became a mental health,

432
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:51,200
Advocates, because I saw this
other consuming darkness, that

433
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,700
place a lot of us every single
day, But most of us are Masters

434
00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:00,000
fiction, writers or a master
actors and actresses what I mean

435
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,000
by that, is we all put up this
mask and like just a quick

436
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,300
trigger warning.
My background is in suicide

437
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:10,800
prevention because of my density
and Veteran communities, and a

438
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,500
lot of veterans who commit
suicide and about 70% of

439
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,100
individuals and patients, who
commit suicide.

440
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:20,700
They commit suicide a week after
they told their loved ones or

441
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:23,500
therapist that oh, they're not
thinking about suicide and

442
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,700
Within a week they Clow 70% 7.
So it can you say that again?

443
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:33,900
You said 70%, 70% of clients and
patients, who seek therapy with

444
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:36,900
suicide risk.
They will tell their therapists

445
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:38,900
and their loved ones.
That hate.

446
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,900
I don't have any suicide risk.
It's not that severe, I'll be

447
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,100
fine.
I'll be back next week with in

448
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,300
one week.
Those same 70% of individuals

449
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:51,300
who actually committed or even
attempted suicide and what that

450
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:56,000
tells us is that we're so Not
covering our pains, even from

451
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,000
the people we trust the most.
And that's how I view mental

452
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,100
health.
And that's how I view

453
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,700
double-edged sword, where if we
don't address this on a micro

454
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,000
level, it's going to contribute
the macro because the macro is

455
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,900
compressed in life, that's a
wild statistic.

456
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:15,400
I mean, because for me
personally, my journey with

457
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,600
mental health was the fact that
I was the same way and this is

458
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,800
ironic because my father was
actually a psychiatrist, you

459
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,100
know?
And there was a lot of clinical

460
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:30,000
Detachment because there was
this sense and I'm sure as a

461
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,100
psychotherapist in the making
you can relate it's something

462
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:37,600
that you you know really immerse
yourself all day from morning to

463
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,100
night on people's problems on
trying to help them.

464
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,600
And then you come home and the
last thing you want to do is

465
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:48,600
have this inkling that it lives
under your roof when you want to

466
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,700
detach yourself from that
because I don't know what the

467
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:54,700
statistics are but I think
Medical professions.

468
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:57,900
I think psychiatrists have, if
not the highest at least one of

469
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,900
the highest suicide rates, even
though and my father was very

470
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,500
well accomplished very well
credentialed psychiatrist, very

471
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,000
good reputation but even he
couldn't see it.

472
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,500
Whether it was denial or it was
just, you know, something that

473
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:13,000
he couldn't see because again,
like you said, you know, you put

474
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,400
the blinders on you.
You have this you're telling

475
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,800
yourself this narrative.
So I personally even with all

476
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,300
this training, with all this
information at my disposal,

477
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,000
Yeah, I mean my journey with
mental health began or you know,

478
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,300
Booth getting the diagnosis of
bipolar disorder.

479
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,900
The precipitating factor that
compelled me to get treatment

480
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,600
was when I started talking about
taking my own life.

481
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,900
I was lucky because I got to a
point where I could articulate.

482
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:43,800
It, you know, where I could say,
I'm thinking about life's not

483
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,500
worth living.
I want to end it all, you know,

484
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:48,400
because that's the litmus test,
right?

485
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,100
That's the one where your loved
one is supposed to take you in

486
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:54,700
to get impatient.
In treatment.

487
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,700
But that's really heartbreaking.
That there are so many people

488
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:02,400
out there who don't articulate
that sentiment and you know,

489
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,900
they don't get that second
chance they end up having to

490
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:07,400
take matters into their own
hands.

491
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,600
So yeah, I talked about an
often, not on this show in my

492
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,200
clinical work where death is an
inevitable outcome that comes

493
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,200
with birth but I think suicide
is an entirely preventable.

494
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,500
Public Health crisis because
nothing is end, all be all.

495
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,300
All but suicide, it creates a
ripple effect.

496
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,600
It does not only impact, the
individual obviously, and

497
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,700
impacts the caregivers, the
loved ones, the family and

498
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:36,000
friends for many weeks months,
and years to come.

499
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,800
And so suicide, landscape has
been pretty bleak for the past,

500
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,500
few decades, veterans, or
otherwise.

501
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,900
That's why I'm really
passionate.

502
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:46,400
And I'm going to become an
aspirational psychedelic

503
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,500
therapist because according to
research out there, which is

504
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:53,500
extremely robust.
Psychedelic medicine has great

505
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,200
Possibility and efficacy to, I
think, reduce, and finally

506
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,700
address those Public Health
pandemic that's been plaguing Us

507
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,400
in the world for so many years.
Ya know, it's interesting.

508
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,700
I think you read my mind because
that was the next question.

509
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:10,300
I was going to go to was, you
know, when people hear about

510
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:13,800
Psychotherapy, it's kind of like
this monolith in their minds.

511
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,900
They think about, you know,
going to sitting on a couch and

512
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,700
whining about your problems, and
I don't mean to dismiss it,

513
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,400
obviously, it's been very
valuable in my life, but I'm

514
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,300
saying that because
Psychotherapy has evolved so

515
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,300
much in the last couple of
years.

516
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,500
One of the things is a use of
alternative therapies such as

517
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,700
psychedelics and I'm getting it
also because that dovetails with

518
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:38,600
the mission of the Shelley
story, which is to own your own

519
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,800
health and untether your life
because owning your own health

520
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,700
means when you go to your
therapist and they tell you

521
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:48,200
something, or when you go to
your GP and they say you're

522
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,100
fine, give you a pat on the back
and let you go and then you, you

523
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:53,100
know, dropped it a couple weeks
later.

524
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:56,500
That's That is preventable.
What I find very heartening.

525
00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:00,400
Is that it sounds like the
Psychotherapy Community is

526
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,900
becoming more accepting of
innovative modalities such as

527
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:09,000
psychedelic therapy, and so, you
could tell me more about your

528
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,000
view of psychedelic therapy and
your experience with it.

529
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,400
The benefits you've accrued from
it and also your journey with it

530
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,300
as a practitioner.
Yeah, of course, how much time

531
00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,200
do we have a second helping,
says, my account in potatoes.

532
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,300
So, yeah, I'll first Established
efficacy or effectiveness of

533
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,600
psychedelic modalities briefly.
And now I'll talk about how I

534
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,100
was able to move through my
biggest, sexual trauma, in

535
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:34,400
college through psychedelic
therapy.

536
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,400
So, according to research and
all these are FDA-approved

537
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,200
research by Maps, John Hopkins,
hospitals, and there's host of

538
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,000
new emerging research every
single day, which is exciting

539
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,000
under this.
Well, a lot of people call

540
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,400
psychedelic Renaissance.
So to speak, even though

541
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,400
psychedelics has been around for
eons, even before the currents

542
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,700
are opposed Nick And
administration.

543
00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:59,200
So a quick thing I want to share
about is it's a research done by

544
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,500
maps for FDA-approved who was
published on nature Journal

545
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,700
which is the most prestigious
scientific peer-reviewed

546
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:08,200
journals in the world for
credibility sake.

547
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,400
They recruited about 110
participants and all these

548
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,000
participants had treatment
resistance depressions and

549
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
complex PTSD.
What that means is not one

550
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,800
post-traumatic stress disorder
but multiple and all of these

551
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,400
have sought It therapy and
medications, like

552
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,100
antidepressants or ssris for at
least 10 years.

553
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,400
Let this sink in.
These are the eligible criteria

554
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,400
to even be part of this study.
What that means is these

555
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,800
participants and patients have
sought out so many different

556
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,400
modalities.
And they've tried literally

557
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,000
everything within their holster
to seek help and I'm sure some

558
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,100
of that works, but their route
causing diagnosis, were still

559
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:53,500
there until seven therapy within
I believe, too.

560
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,100
Four sessions with control
dosage and they did a two-year

561
00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:00,700
longitudinal study for follow-up
to see the sustains efficacy of

562
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:03,000
these medications.
Because what's the point, if it

563
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,400
works for eight hours and then
it goes back to the or reverse

564
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,900
back to the Baseline.
Baseline 86% of these

565
00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:16,100
participants, third disease, and
their diagnosis of complex PTSD

566
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,900
and treatment-resistant
depressions work eradicated.

567
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,400
Wow, let me see that again.
It's not harm reduction.

568
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:28,600
It's not symptoms of citing its
eradications of the disease and

569
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,800
the diagnosis itself.
What that means is after the

570
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,300
psilocybin assisted
Psychotherapy, 86 of this

571
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:38,500
participants no longer had any
depressive symptoms.

572
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:44,600
No longer had any PTSD related
symptoms after 10 to 15 years,

573
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,800
seeing therapists and on
medications, like ssris.

574
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:50,700
And then brings out to.
I don't like bashing ssris

575
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,200
because they work and they serve
a lot of folks.

576
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,200
But the serotonin releases by
ssris, or antidepressants are

577
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,200
equivalent to about 30 minutes
to an hour of rigorous exercise

578
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,000
and running the runner's high,
right?

579
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,500
Yes.
Think about that so it works but

580
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:11,600
it's not a magical, savior pill
and of course psychedelics have

581
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,000
serious risk factors like heart
disease.

582
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:18,500
If you have psychiatric history,
like if your family has bipolar

583
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:21,700
personality disorders or some
sort of a mental illness, it's

584
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:23,400
not recommended because the
increase.

585
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:26,400
Has the chance of psychosis.
What that means is, you're a

586
00:31:26,408 --> 00:31:29,600
mental illness, may your brought
and once it rubs its

587
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,700
irreversible, it's permanent.
So it's not a magic pill but for

588
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:37,300
those who are eligible per
physician consultations and of

589
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:39,500
course, I'm not a physician.
So please consult with your

590
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:43,700
doctors about this.
If you're eligible, then the

591
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:46,900
efficacy is established in
evidence is very robust and

592
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:50,900
quickly into how that benefited
me and how that catalyzed my

593
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:53,400
hope and aspirations to become a
psychedelic acid.

594
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,900
The psychotherapist is, I
actually had a sexual trauma in

595
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:58,800
college.
I was actually sexually

596
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,500
assaulted by someone by a woman
and of course, we know that

597
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:06,600
sexual assault is most common
for women, but men, I think one

598
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,100
in eight men get sexually
assaulted as well.

599
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:10,800
It's not as commonly talked
about.

600
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,300
So of course, this was
traumatic, but I've worked

601
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:15,800
through their trauma.
So I'm happy to talk about this

602
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,400
for fellow men who may be able
to benefit from this.

603
00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:22,500
I've held so much resentments
and anger and I was vindictive

604
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,900
towards not just This person,
but Mall woman, because I was

605
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:30,200
pretty religious growing up.
So even in college as part of

606
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,300
Greek life, I actually wanted to
see my virginity or save myself

607
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:37,900
for not my wife necessarily, but
for someone special and then

608
00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:42,100
obviously this incident happened
and after that I became this

609
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:45,700
what people call like fuck boy,
I guess I wanted to revenge

610
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:48,400
against all women.
So there is a lot of promiscuity

611
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,100
than it.
Sounds like a lot.

612
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:51,900
Yep.
And I wanted to like, take

613
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,000
revenge back to the world.
The one man who did this to me

614
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,200
until I came across psilocybin
therapy within eight hours in

615
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,600
the kill, within eight hours of
psilocybin.

616
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,800
Assisted therapy by this person.
The next day, I had this thought

617
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,100
of nowhere and this was
premeditation is, wow.

618
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:10,600
I wonder how that person is
doing.

619
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,500
Should I reach out and tell her
that?

620
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:17,500
I forgive her, not for her sake,
but for my sake to give myself

621
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:19,600
the permission to move on from
my pain.

622
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,000
So this sort of activated The
Compassion switch.

623
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,300
In your brain, the psilocybin
nerve for yeah, well I wish

624
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:30,600
there was a word stronger than
compassion empathy because I

625
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,300
view this person as enemy and
has plagued me so much pain,

626
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:37,800
that impacted the mid-20s of my
life from college so mid-20s.

627
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,900
That's like seven, eight years
but we didn't one session.

628
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:44,000
I was able to not only forgive
that person but also to reach

629
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,100
out.
I was able to move through that

630
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:50,000
and now I just got engaged as
you know, last week, my lifelong

631
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,400
learner Becky and none of this
will be possible.

632
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:56,800
With all psilocybin that's why
when I found that out I was like

633
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,900
this has to be more than just
party drop more than just seeing

634
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:02,900
colors that has to be some
serious clinical implications

635
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:05,300
therapeutic benefit, you know
you know.

636
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,300
So that's how I came across a
lot of research and ever since

637
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,199
then I've been like a second
delic nerd.

638
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,300
I read about everything near a
policy related on psychedelics

639
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,800
of my post on most psychedelic
research out there.

640
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,100
Now these I'm sorry you had to
go through that.

641
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,400
I mean that sounds very
difficult but I'm very happy

642
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,500
that you were able to And
something that helped you turn

643
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,000
the corner and to have that
level of forgiveness and

644
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,100
compassion.
And the fact that psilocybin was

645
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:34,000
able to help you achieve, that
turnaround is quite impressive

646
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,500
in terms of patients that you're
working with in terms of your

647
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:41,400
clinical work.
What is the general receptivity

648
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,900
of patients out there to this
treatment?

649
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,900
Is it something that they are
actively seeking and you're

650
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:50,500
helping facilitate that?
Or is it something where they're

651
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:53,500
sort of in that template mode
of, you know, just take your

652
00:34:53,699 --> 00:34:56,900
Medications go to therapy like
how is psilocybin sort of

653
00:34:56,900 --> 00:35:00,300
entering or other psychedelics?
How is that entering into the

654
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,700
suite of options that you
provide patients?

655
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200
So I currently don't practice it
since I'm still working towards

656
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,700
my licensure but I have guided
some of the folks offline on an

657
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:14,600
unofficial capacity so I'll give
a more broad answer.

658
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,600
I think on a macro level like in
Los Angeles, which is where

659
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,800
we're at.
And obviously organ just

660
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,300
recently decriminalized
psilocybin or I think they

661
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:25,200
legalized it I believe.
If which is a huge front, step

662
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,200
towards the frontier of
psychedelics and healing for

663
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,700
help Seekers who are interested.
So, I think on a macro level,

664
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,700
there is a huge upside, and
there's a huge shift in terms of

665
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:39,800
a culture and how the world
perceive these party drugs and

666
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,200
the actual healing properties
and the potential it has a

667
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,400
substance at the same time.
There are dark side and new ones

668
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,600
aspects of not.
A lot of people talk about is a

669
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,300
lot of people to enter questions
people.

670
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,300
We'll need psilocybin or
psychedelic medicine.

671
00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:01,800
The most most of them are are on
SSRI or antidepressants and how

672
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,800
psilocybin and a lot of
psychedelics works is it works

673
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,000
through the serotonin receptors,
it releases and lines of

674
00:36:08,008 --> 00:36:10,300
Serotonin, right?
And that's how ssris or

675
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:13,900
antidepressants work, what that
means is if you're on SSRI

676
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,900
psilocybin or out some
psychedelics, do not work for

677
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:19,600
you.
Hmm, it doesn't work because the

678
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,400
serotonin receptors already
binded by the ssris.

679
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:26,600
What that is is because of these
big Pharma campaign and big

680
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,100
Pharma influence, the people who
are in desperate need of

681
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:33,500
psilocybin or psychedelics can
actually not benefit from

682
00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:36,800
psilocybin and psychedelics.
Is that a disqualifying Factor?

683
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,600
Because I think you had
mentioned that they do like an

684
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,400
intake form.
They probably have to look at

685
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,400
your risk factors.
So let's say I go in and I'm

686
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,200
taking an SSRI.
Would that disqualify me from

687
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,600
psilocybin?
Or would I have to wean off of

688
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:50,900
it first?
Great question.

689
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,900
So it depends, but in most cases
like, Where I live.

690
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:56,100
This clinical trials are hosted
in Israel.

691
00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:59,300
Canada, Switzerland, and some
other places including the u.s.

692
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:02,300
most of them will not admit any
patients.

693
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,800
If you've been on SSRI and a lot
of them will ask them.

694
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,100
Like some generous places will
allow you to partake or receive

695
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:12,700
the help if you've been weaned
off of it for six months but the

696
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:16,800
half-life of ssris or most
intensive presence or actually

697
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,100
up to a year.
So most clinics and psychedelic

698
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:23,700
centers will actually require
you to wean off of your Asians

699
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:27,100
for at least a year and then you
can partake which creates

700
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:30,400
additional unintended
consequences of withdrawal.

701
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,700
Here, all these issues that
comes with.

702
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:35,900
When you take off of
antidepressants, imagine someone

703
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:39,000
like the participants alluded
earlier in the clinical trial

704
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,200
and study, where they've been on
this medication as a Lifeline

705
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,700
for 10 to 15 years.
And now they have to take that

706
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:47,400
off.
Yeah, to try out this

707
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,500
potentially life-saving
medicine.

708
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,000
That's a huge risk and a gallery
disruptive.

709
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,900
Yeah, so there are a lot Nuances
in psychedelics?

710
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:55,700
Yeah.
No.

711
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,900
But what's interesting if you
listen to some of our older

712
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:01,700
podcast, psilocybin is becoming
so much more mainstream right

713
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:03,300
now.
I could say that because we

714
00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:06,200
talked to the head of Nami
Chicago, you know, the National

715
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,700
Alliance on Mental Illness and
she was talking about

716
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:10,500
psilocybin.
She was talking about ketamine.

717
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,500
That's one of those products
that again, as you talked about

718
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,000
earlier, was always seen as
like, a party drug but it's

719
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,500
definitely entering the
mainstream.

720
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:19,500
So I definitely take heart in
that.

721
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:22,500
I mean, I think being in the
stem cell business, I can say

722
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:26,200
that the u.s. really Really has
a lot of catch up to do, not

723
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,400
getting into a soapbox about the
FDA and big Pharma, but I do

724
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,700
think that there are glimmers of
Hope and my hats off to people

725
00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:37,200
like you who are trying to point
people in the right direction

726
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,900
and tell them that there are
alternatives Beyond just, you

727
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,300
know, the Slick marketing
campaigns that big pharma's

728
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,700
putting in your path.
So if I could say one more

729
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:48,800
thing.
Absolutely.

730
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:52,700
So with ketamine people, call
the Special K, I view it as like

731
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:54,700
a gateway.
Second delic medicine.

732
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,900
So according to meta-analysis
and all the research I've read

733
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:01,300
ketamine is actually on the
lower totem pole of the

734
00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:04,400
efficacious psychedelic drug.
What that means is the

735
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,600
sustained.
Efficacy of ketamine only lasts

736
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,200
up to two weeks after that.
Whatever the benefit you go from

737
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,900
ketamine therapy, which works.
By the way, it is evidence-based

738
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,000
that efficacy or Effectiveness
or a fade out after the second

739
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,400
week.
So you have to constantly

740
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,100
administer the drug and continue
to do it for a long time versus

741
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,500
MDMA and so seven, assists
therapy, the efficacy sustained.

742
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,000
At least minimum two years and
more at the same time.

743
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,000
I think a diamond is a great
entry substance.

744
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,300
You see if you're okay with
that, if you're comfortable with

745
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:39,300
what it feels like, then I think
that's a good first step to get

746
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:42,500
to the some heavier and bigger
stuff, but I think it's over

747
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:45,500
applied and it's like hailed as
the golden standard for

748
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:48,500
psychedelics now, because it was
the first one to be approved by

749
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,800
FDA for clinical usage, which is
great at the same time.

750
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,400
It's not as amazing as well.
People say according to

751
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,700
research.
Yeah.

752
00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:58,600
So I think it's kind of like a
mileage may vary type thing.

753
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,500
Just make sure that don't go to
it as necessarily this, you

754
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:05,200
know, cure all that's going to
solve all your problems and

755
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,000
things like that, you know?
Right.

756
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,300
As I mentioned earlier, I mean I
think whenever I listen to your

757
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:13,000
podcast you know there's so many
amazing thought leaders that you

758
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,400
guys have either interviewed or
you guys have alluded to in

759
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,100
terms of philosophies, I know
you talked about like, Kamal,

760
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:20,900
Ravi conned you, talk about
James.

761
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:24,700
Clear, can you tell me if
there's Any source of

762
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:26,700
inspiration or source of
insight.

763
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,400
That has really resonated with
you because as I said, you know,

764
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,300
the insights that you have on
your podcast or very valuable

765
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:36,700
and I think a lot of our
listeners might benefit from a

766
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:38,800
provider of that type of wisdom
if you will.

767
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,600
Yeah, very thoughtful question.
So I think that answers highs

768
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,000
into the thesis or the central
message of my show, where I

769
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,900
really believe in this intricate
and interconnected relationship

770
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:56,100
between killing The Optimal
Performance and of course, I'm a

771
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,600
huge mindset, believer.
I'm all about optimizations like

772
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,800
a lot of self-help junkies are.
I started reading self-help book

773
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,600
since I was 13 and I'm, Yeah,
you mentioned the secret or

774
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,300
something was icy cream can
write.

775
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,800
That was my first clue.
So I share that because tying to

776
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,100
my earlier response where I
really feel like emotional

777
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:18,000
capacity or emotional
functioning has be synonymous

778
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,100
with Optimal Performance and
novel ravikant talks about this

779
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:25,400
where he says the best.
Things in life compound and

780
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,000
iterate over time.
Whether that's investment,

781
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,400
although we're in a pretty fair
market, right?

782
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,100
Or relationships, skill sets
competency, if you are being

783
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:37,100
intentional and delicious, ins
with, whatever you're

784
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:40,600
cultivating, like, a skill set.
That thing really compounds in

785
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,600
grows over time, and you'll be
amazed where you're at, like

786
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,500
five ten years down the road.
I view that as the same thing as

787
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,800
emotional capacity and Optimal
Performance like what does it

788
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,200
mean to be optimal?
Is what can you do to sustain?

789
00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:56,600
That Peak Performance for as
long as possible, that's

790
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,900
optimality, right?
So to do that, what do you have

791
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,300
to do sustained?
Which we're doing for a long

792
00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:04,900
time.
I've really, really are cause

793
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:08,000
successful friends /, societal
standards, there are making a

794
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,700
killing financially.
They have their business owner,

795
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:14,200
serial social entrepreneurs.
There are getting four or five

796
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,200
hours of sleep in their late 20s
because they have to work

797
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,800
hundred hours a week because of
their businesses, and it's a

798
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,600
self-chosen sacrifice and I
respect And tip my hat off to

799
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,700
their work ethics at the same
time.

800
00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:29,800
I know this as a fact as a
clinician that they're killing

801
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,100
themselves when they hit 40s or
even late 30s, they may have a

802
00:42:34,107 --> 00:42:38,500
stroke their physical health and
stamina May deteriorate.

803
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,600
I know this guy I will name is
name so successful, but he's

804
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,600
have four strokes at age 40.
Oh, wow.

805
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,200
And he's lucky that he's not
paralyzed and dead, but guess

806
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,800
what?
After he survived his fourth

807
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,400
one, he went back to his
routine.

808
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,500
He has four different This is
with more than 100 employees

809
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:57,800
under him.
He hasn't had that wake-up call.

810
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,600
It sounds like, I mean, even
after getting those kinds of

811
00:43:00,607 --> 00:43:03,900
disruptions, he's still wanting
to go along with the status quo.

812
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,600
Yeah.
And I think a lot of are called

813
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,500
smart people.
We place too much value on

814
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:13,200
pattern recognitions is we look
at the past as a predictor of

815
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,900
the future that another flawed
because the past is a

816
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:22,100
documentation of what happens,
the future hasn't happened yet.

817
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,200
So I think to, Is mine on a lot
of these high performers are

818
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,000
like, oh, I have enough mileage
on my body, I could will power

819
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,200
through it through my cultivated
willpower routine, systems

820
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,200
whatever, but just because it
hasn't happened, there's not

821
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,700
mean it won't happen.
So I tied that into your

822
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:43,000
question where for me, as long
as I mean shirring that I'm at

823
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,800
the peak Primal mental, health
States, emotional health, State

824
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:51,300
plus, physical health because I
think mental health is Health

825
00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:55,100
overall, I know that whatever.
Ver, barriers and struggles and

826
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:58,400
challenges come out way.
I have hundred percent of fuel

827
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,600
and capacity to address those
issues head-on versus a lot of

828
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,700
these folks who are high
performing now, they're running

829
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:09,400
on 60, 70, 50 percent of fuel.
And you don't know when that

830
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,800
tire is going to pop
metaphorically or when the

831
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,700
engine is going to blow, but it
will because even the best cars

832
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:18,700
have mileage limits are, we're
not machines were humans.

833
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,000
So that's how I want to answer
your questions in a more

834
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,700
long-winded way where I really
think all of us is to society,

835
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,200
especially Asian Americans and
Asians.

836
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,500
We need to equate, emotional
capacity and mental health to

837
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,300
Optimal Performance.
Not the other way around.

838
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:37,800
Yeah, it's not a nice to have,
as you said.

839
00:44:37,808 --> 00:44:40,200
I think you had said earlier, it
should be a non-negotiable

840
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,400
because you're not going to be
good to anybody.

841
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,900
Regardless, I mean, especially
if you have kids and, you know,

842
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:49,200
you haven't spent any time with
them and you've just been, you

843
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,200
know, burning the midnight oil
and just neglecting your health

844
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:57,900
Emotional and physical then that
eventually you got to pay the

845
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:00,900
piper as they say, right?
And this whole mentality of all,

846
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:03,400
I'll sleep when I'm dead as
just, you know.

847
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,400
It is not a recipe for success,
that's for sure.

848
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:09,400
Yeah.
And if you're like updating, all

849
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,000
your career Ambitions, through
all these things, what are you

850
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000
doing to update the quality of
your life?

851
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,400
What are you doing to update
your internal system?

852
00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:20,700
Most of us, the answer is we're
not doing anything about it,

853
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,100
like we shower more every single
week, Week than some of the sea

854
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:28,100
therapist right there are 168
hours in a week and therapies

855
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:30,900
like an hour a week.
So if you're not even willing to

856
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:34,100
do at least that an hour out of
168 hours.

857
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:35,600
Yeah.
Be doing with your life, you

858
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,200
know, because all these external
things will fake.

859
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,000
Yeah.
And analogy, I really enjoy is,

860
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:43,500
there's probably so many people
who've done this, but the

861
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,700
founder of mine, valleys names
Vision, lucky oniy.

862
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:49,600
He had made the great analogy of
how the brain is like an

863
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,800
operating system and think about
our operating systems, I just

864
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,700
updated my iPhone and it's
draining the hell out of my bag

865
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,100
of, but, you know, we update our
operating systems on our phones.

866
00:46:01,100 --> 00:46:04,600
We updated operating systems on
our laptops all the time, but

867
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,000
our mindset our mentality.
What does success look like

868
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,600
we're still especially as Asian
Americans were still harboring

869
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,000
those operating systems like the
equivalent of like Windows 95

870
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,300
like what our parents told us
coming to this country that, you

871
00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:22,500
know, this is what success looks
like, you know, to be a

872
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,500
physician And have a nice house
in the suburbs when in fact that

873
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:29,900
stuff needs to be tossed out.
And again, I wouldn't say that

874
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:33,400
I'm the expert on this because
I'm still as we all are and work

875
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,000
in progress.
But I would definitely say that

876
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,400
I'm being more thoughtful and
I'm being more intentional in

877
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,200
terms of what I'm looking at.
In terms of just breaking those

878
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:47,200
connections between bullet
points on my resume and you know

879
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,500
what happiness and success looks
like.

880
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:53,700
Yeah and like and when you're a
field that healing Ripples

881
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:57,200
through all your families are.
You can attend and show up for

882
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,700
your families and loved ones
better.

883
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,500
Conversely.
Your destructive behaviors.

884
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,300
Also ripples through.
And he does not only impact, the

885
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:07,900
individual impacts everyone
around you and if that's the

886
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:11,400
dichotomy or dealing with might
as well, choose a healing route

887
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,000
where, why don't you want to
show up and Elevate everyone

888
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,800
else around you as well.
And that to me is what optimal

889
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,800
means?
Yeah, absolutely.

890
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:22,100
I know this question is sort of
like asking a parent to pick out

891
00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:25,900
their favorite child.
Yeah, but is there any guest in

892
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:29,200
particular that you've had on
the show or any episode that you

893
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,100
would Point listeners to, and
say this is exactly what I was

894
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:34,600
looking for.
When I launched the podcast,

895
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,700
this validates, my decision to
do the podcast.

896
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:40,900
If there's anyone in particular,
I'd love to point listeners to

897
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,900
man, that is a hard question.
Tough question, with all

898
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:48,100
plugging.
My latest episode, I want to go

899
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:52,800
with episode 110 and 111 with
Vinny crispino.

900
00:47:53,300 --> 00:47:57,000
Use the founder of pain Academy,
very amazing holistic health

901
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,900
movement on social media.
It's called like 300K followers

902
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:03,000
from following like the holistic
psychologist.

903
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,100
Dave, asprey and a lot of these
legitimate holistic, health

904
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:08,200
Advocates.
So in The credibility is there

905
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,200
for sure.
And yeah, we talked a lot about

906
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,800
pain and how a lot of us want to
run away and avoid from pain and

907
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,200
suffering.
But as any chance at best

908
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:19,400
suffering and pain comes to
life, right?

909
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,100
So he talks a lot about that.
Of course he's a movement.

910
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,600
An expert, but he has amazing
amazing.

911
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,400
Holistic.
Emphasis on visual, logical

912
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,300
health, and mental health.
And what that really means, he

913
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:34,600
was a former eight time all
American athletes.

914
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,800
He almost went pro but had a
life near-death like

915
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,000
life-altering back injury that
gave you this permanent physical

916
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,500
disability and he was paralyzed
for many many years which kind

917
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:47,100
of lies his own journey to
become where he is currently.

918
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,000
So I'll recommends episode 110
and episode 111 which talks

919
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,100
about why healing takes At least
sometimes why pain-free life is

920
00:48:56,100 --> 00:49:00,000
not possible but you can Embrace
pain and take away what you met

921
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,700
to elevate and update the
operating system, as you said

922
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:06,200
earlier, those two episodes and
David Rod episode, I think

923
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,900
that's hundred thirteen or
fourteen.

924
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:12,500
He's a top 1% most cited
psychologist and all of PubMed

925
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,800
database for suicide
specifically.

926
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,800
He's also the former president
at University of Memphis.

927
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:21,200
He is one of the most brilliant
people I've ever spoken with,

928
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,800
but the entire Hour episode is
it Non-stop.

929
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:24,900
Ted talk.
As you said.

930
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:26,800
Yeah.
So those three episodes is where

931
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,200
I want to paint my listeners to
yeah.

932
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,700
Okay no definitely.
I think I had checked out the

933
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:33,300
Vinny.
I didn't realize that he had

934
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:37,100
been almost fully paralyzed.
That's incredible to Journey

935
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,500
that he's navigating from that.
20 point is it's impressive.

936
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:44,600
The healing power of the mind
and body, you know, to not

937
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,500
accept the cards that are given
to us and really harness that

938
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,600
healing power.
It's really truly impressive and

939
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,100
tying it back to going full
circle.

940
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,600
All the fact that we're able to
talk to these people and get

941
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,300
their insights and share with
the world?

942
00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:01,000
I mean, for me personally, and
this discussion is a great

943
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,400
example that validates my
purpose, more than any listen,

944
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,000
notes score or any number of
downloads, I have on my show for

945
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,800
sure.
It's kind of a mild honestly,

946
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,000
like I used to feel pretty
lonely in the world in terms of

947
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,800
like, oh why don't other people
are into esoteric things, why

948
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,000
don't other people have these
white diverging interests?

949
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,500
In life, why don't everyone can
talk about everything from

950
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:30,100
politics to mental health, to
sports, to music to food.

951
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,000
And then I came across
podcasting and everyone, I speak

952
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,700
to the, on the show, can
literally talk about everything

953
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:37,300
and they're experts in many
folds.

954
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,300
I'm not quite there at the
expertise level, but I think I

955
00:50:40,308 --> 00:50:43,000
have the Curiosity that I'm
willing to engage in these

956
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,000
conversations, but you're a
hundred percent, right?

957
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,100
It's the people that came
across, makes the podcast worth

958
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:50,100
it.
Plus the messages that I get

959
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:53,000
from listeners once in a while.
So what's next for you?

960
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,000
Benoit.
I mean, obviously, I didn't

961
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,800
officially say it, but you got
engaged recently.

962
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,000
So obviously that's a big
Journey.

963
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,900
Congrats on that.
But yeah, tell us more.

964
00:51:00,900 --> 00:51:04,000
What's on the horizon for you?
Yeah, my partner.

965
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,800
Becky, she hates when I mention
her name.

966
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,800
So I just mentioned her name for
the sake of but she's a

967
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,700
physician as I spoke with you
earlier.

968
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:14,800
So she's also very busy.
So I want to be the most

969
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,800
supportive emotionally to my
partner and I don't use the word

970
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,000
partner just as a PC turn, I
view my future wife.

971
00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:27,200
My fianc�� more than just fiance,
he's partnered to me.

972
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,500
Is encompassing term that talks
about lifelong partnership.

973
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:34,000
Emotional Partnerships
Ambitions, all these things.

974
00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:36,900
So that's my number one
intention is I want to be better

975
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,000
because I was not always the
best boyfriends but I want to

976
00:51:40,008 --> 00:51:44,000
become the version of man, that
God is proud of.

977
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,000
But also my partner's proud of
in the secondly I want to

978
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,300
eventually get my certifications
and licensure and psychedelic

979
00:51:50,300 --> 00:51:53,000
assisted Psychotherapy to really
creep.

980
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,800
Ripple in this can't Suicide
Prevention lensky.

981
00:51:56,900 --> 00:51:59,900
That I think's as plate, too
many Americans in the US and the

982
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,200
world.
And I want to spearhead that

983
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,700
changed their psychedelic
medicine and just keep doing and

984
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:08,600
talking to amazing folks and
insightful folks Like You on the

985
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,900
show and hopefully we can impart
hopeful messages hopeful

986
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:15,200
insights.
And so for people to discover

987
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,300
more about whatever they want to
take away from conversations,

988
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,500
that's an incredible journey.
And you're doing an amazing job,

989
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,000
is there anything else you want
to?

990
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:24,800
To touch on before we wrap
things up.

991
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,600
Yeah.
Just the central message of

992
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,700
that, I think mental health is
just for all of us to recognize

993
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,000
and accept that none of us walk
this path of life alone and

994
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,400
sometimes the life really feels
lonely at times.

995
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,800
Sometimes, the life feels dark a
lot of us may feel like we don't

996
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,400
have a lot of things to be
thankful for or be grateful for

997
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,900
at the same time.
I want to urge and tell everyone

998
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:52,200
that's listening that none of us
walk this path alone and it's

999
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,900
like the common Humanity.
T piece, where humans evolved

1000
00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:57,900
from?
Homo sapiens as the apex

1001
00:52:57,900 --> 00:52:59,900
predator.
Not because we were stronger

1002
00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:01,900
than the end of the most.
There are bigger, according, to

1003
00:53:01,900 --> 00:53:04,400
fossil records, we became the
humans.

1004
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,700
Because we had the largest
tribal, Gatherings / fossils, I

1005
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:12,000
think Homo sapiens had about 100
M plus neanderthals.

1006
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
And other homo species is only
about 60 to 70.

1007
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:19,200
So we're almost more than double
in terms of social Gathering and

1008
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,300
I want to tell everyone that
that's part of our prehistoric

1009
00:53:22,300 --> 00:53:25,500
DNA.
All those are literally wired to

1010
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,900
be together to be social and to
walk this path together.

1011
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,100
So that's my last in party
message.

1012
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,300
We talked about it on an episode
that of releasing this week

1013
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:36,400
talking about the power of
community.

1014
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:39,300
And really that is what
obviously sets us apart.

1015
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:42,700
And even in this increasingly
fragmented world where we're all

1016
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:45,700
heads down on our phone, we
really gotta get back to that,

1017
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:49,300
Get Back to Basics and really
harness the power of community.

1018
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,800
So I have your information here
than while but if Here's this.

1019
00:53:53,900 --> 00:53:56,400
And they're really interesting.
They want to recharge where can

1020
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,900
people find you?
Yeah you can find me and content

1021
00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:05,000
and the conversations we have on
a bi-weekly basis on YouTube.

1022
00:54:05,100 --> 00:54:08,600
Discover more podcast or on
Apple podcasts.

1023
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,900
Audio file wherever you get your
favorite dosage of podcast at

1024
00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:15,100
discover more and I know
discover more is that the credit

1025
00:54:15,100 --> 00:54:18,800
card line by discover.
But discover more ethos is just

1026
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,400
about discovering more.
Toolkits discovering more

1027
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,700
insights and discovering more.
Or stories authentic life.

1028
00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:28,700
Stories to tell you that.
Oh wow, my suffering and my pain

1029
00:54:28,700 --> 00:54:30,800
is not unique to me other
people.

1030
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,800
Before me have gone through this
but I love to connect with

1031
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,600
everyone offline and bring this
conversation to the next level.

1032
00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:40,600
So Ben why was amazing having
you on and look forward to

1033
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:42,300
continuing the discussion.
Yeah.

1034
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:43,700
And the killed.
Thanks for having you on and

1035
00:54:43,700 --> 00:54:47,200
excited to have you both on my
show coming soon and appreciate

1036
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,100
you for your thoughtful
questions in the work you're

1037
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:51,500
doing as well.
Yeah, thanks a lot Benoit.

1038
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:55,400
Thanks so much for listening and
I hope you enjoyed that episode

1039
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:57,600
four more of these types of
conversations.

1040
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,500
Please visit us at untether,
your life that Co you can also

1041
00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:04,600
find us on Instagram and
untether your life, as well as

1042
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,600
on Apple Spotify and other
platforms by searching for

1043
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,200
untether, your life.
And if you did enjoy this

1044
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,100
episode, please leave us a
review or share it with someone

1045
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:15,600
who might also benefit.
Thanks.

1046
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,600
And until the next time we meet
stay untethered.