26: Rick Clemons, Host, The Life (UN)closeted Podcast: Managing Depression and the Uncloseted Life

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I think the biggest thing is to
own your truth.

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The truth of who you are is far
more powerful than the false

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truth.
You're pretending to be so show

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the world who you are not ever
is going to embrace that, but I

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think hiding of any type is
actually one of the worst things

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you can do for your own Mental
Health.

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Hi.
This is Nicole.

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Coming to you from Chicago with
the Shelly story.

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My wife Shelly.
And I wrote a book and are

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currently working on a movie
about our Journeys, with mental

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health, specifically, bipolar
disorder, as an offshoot of

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that, we've developed a podcast,
called the Shelly story, where

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we speak to people from a broad
variety of backgrounds, about

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the verse issues, most notably
mental health, very excited to

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speak to today's guest Rick
Clements Shelly.

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And I met Rick through an
amazing program called the

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speaker lab and he's helped us
navigate.

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The challenging world of the
Speaking circuit.

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He's got an incredible story to
share.

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So I'm so glad he was able to
find time.

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And is incredibly packed
schedule to talk to us.

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Rick, it's great to have you on
the show.

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Thanks, thanks again for for
your time.

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Of course, man, I'll go ahead
and tell the audience a little

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bit about you.
So Rick Clemens is a well-known

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culture, disruptor in a good
way, closet, Buster AKA coming

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out coach and bold move
strategist.

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Inspiring people from all walks
of life, the liver, no excuses,

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no fears.
No apologies life.

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Tapping Linda was more than 25
years of experience in personal

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development.
Rick Leverage is his status as a

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late bloomer coming out of the
closet at 36 and stepping into

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entrepreneurship at 43 to
lovingly kick other people into

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high gear to thrive in their own
lives.

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Without apologies personally and
professionally, he's a published

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author of the book frankly.
My dear I'm gay late bloomers

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guide to coming out a successful
podcaster.

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It's got the life on.
It + 40 + gay men, gay talk,

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professional speaker, world
record holder, father of two

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young women and husband to one
guy.

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Oh and he's bald I was teaching
Spin and drinking wine, not

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doing the latter two at the same
time, so Rick.

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Thanks.
Thanks again.

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So one of the things that I know
you had mentioned, I think it

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was on a podcast but you say
that one of the exercises you

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like to do every day is to say,
you know, who are you sort of

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look in the mirror and and he
reflective.

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So maybe if you can, go ahead
and answer that question for us

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beyond what I had shared is, who
is who is Rick Clemens?

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Well, given that it's early
morning and we're recording this

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right now.
Rick Clemens is no, I'm not that

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tired, but it's after a weekend.
So we're it's a Monday morning,

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right?
But yeah, who I am, is, I feel

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like I try to truly show up as
just a guy who's, like, whatever

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I need to be.
I show up as I did.

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For many years, so many things,
not just my coming out but like

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even when I wanted to be
professionally, I hid and I kept

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and now it's not time.
No, it's not time.

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And at this stage I feel like
I'm the guy who refuses to hide,

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no matter what it is.
You know, there's what get and

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that's really at the core of how
I tried to consistently live my

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life.
It's just be here.

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This is who I am and why I hide,
you know, there's no reason.

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Can you take us through a little
bit of your journey?

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Because I think it's, I'm very
familiar with that.

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You and I are good friends, and
we've talked quite a bit.

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And as I mentioned when we were
talking before, you've got

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probably one of the biggest
digital Footprints out there.

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Anyone who wants to know Rick,
he's literally an open book but

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could you give us a 30,000 foot
view of your background like in

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terms of you know growing up
sort of what your your career

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path look like and kind of how
you ended up being the

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Unapologetic guy?
When I really step back and look

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through everything every step of
the way.

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I held myself back and I
apologized in my own way, about

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everything I did from starting
and, you know, Young School in a

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life to up through high school
and into college and everything.

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I ended up with a college degree
that I'm like, this isn't really

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what I want but you know what?
Just let's get it done.

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Let's do this.
Right?

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What was your undergrad degree
in nutrition and dietetics I was

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started at 1:00.
College and like, it was a

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college.
My parents said, and this is

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where you got to go.
Because this is where we need

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you to be, and private Church
College, all this sort of stuff,

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and I defaulted into something
and I'm just like this isn't

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what I want.
So I took a year off and kind of

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got my act together and stood
up.

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This was probably one of the
very first times.

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I stood up to my parents in a
very strong lines that here's

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where I'm going to school,
you're not helping me pay for

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this.
So I'm going where I want to go

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and they weren't real happy but
I'm like the way it is, you

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know.
Yeah.

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How about time I got that point
2020 to that point 2122,

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somewhere in that range.
And I was just like, I'm done,

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you know, I'm going to go be who
I want to be.

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Wasn't happy because it's like,
wow, all these credits are

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already here.
Like great, you know?

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But I did, I did manage to get a
double, you know, I got Hotel

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restaurant management and
dietetics had no interest in

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being a dietitian and kind of
launched my career and every

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step of the way.
I'm so glad what happened

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happened.
Because even as I sit here

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today, it's like wow, I can
remember back to those first

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jobs.
I was a food and beverage person

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at to colleges and universities
and then I was a food and

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beverage director You're my own
University at one point in time

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on the my own University but a
university I think I ran it and

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then I went to work for Marriott
and then after Mary I moved to

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California with my now ex-wife
and like, okay, well Hotel

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restaurant really wasn't where I
wanted to be in and I ended up

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with smaller company that was a
Hospitality tour company and I

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went okay, that works, but it's
so interesting because every

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step every step got me where I
sit today.

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There's things that I do in my
own business.

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I'm like, yeah, I learned that
that because of what I did back

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then, and I learned that because
of what I did, sure, I wouldn't

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be in that marketing branding
space, that I now use was so

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many of you guys that have come
through the speaker lab program

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to help really brand and get you
focus on stuff.

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And I wouldn't be where I am
today in my own private practice

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of helping people.
Really live Unapologetic lives

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and like just learn that mindset
and take on that.

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No fears, no excuses.
No apologies mindset.

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If I hadn't gone through, what I
went through in so many

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different places.
From coming out of the closet to

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finally getting laid off and
send, that's it.

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I'm done.
I'm gonna go start my own

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business.
Every bit of it has contributed

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to it and it still continues.
I mean, you've seen through my

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coaching with you that even that
Unapologetic, Stuff shows up in

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that coaching even though I'm
coaching anymore around those

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speaking and stuff that we do in
the speaker lab and it feels

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really good to like wake up
every morning and go.

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What do I get to do today?
I get to help somebody else like

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unapologetically show up and be
who they are.

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Yeah, and I think one of the
really admirable goals of your

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program really is to help them
live, that unclouded lifestyle

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and not have to go through what
you had gone through.

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Because it's helping helping
kind of have that, I always

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hesitate to use this word, but
that come to Jesus moment where

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it's like, okay, yep.
What I'm doing is not working.

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What I've been doing.
I've been living according to

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this template.
That was handed to me.

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How did you get to that point?
I mean because I'd like to hear

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more about your journey to
becoming on closeted in the

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literal and figurative sense.
Sure.

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And it's partially through a lot
of pain.

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You know, you have been through
your own pain and you know, oh

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my gosh, I don't want nobody to
know, this is what's going on

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with me.
If somebody had told me in 1999,

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when I came out of the closet
came out said, okay, finally,

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I'm hate to say I'm
surrendering, but I kind of did.

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I'm surrendering to be myself,
right?

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Right.
Hey, that I would take all of

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this and turn it into a
business.

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I would have said, you're
absolutely freaking crazy.

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If some people I would write a
book about this.

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If somebody told me I would have
two successful podcast and I

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would have spoken on stages all
over the world.

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And I'm like, no this is Yahoo I
Surrender but then as each

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little thing started to unlocked
and go through the pain of

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divorce and you know, trying to
fit into the gay community as a

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guy late in life coming.
Out.

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And then trying to like
re-engineer what my career

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looked like after that last lay
off.

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I'm like every step of the way
here.

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I'm unclosing myself to be more
closer to who I truly am.

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Even though all of it resided
within and this is one of the

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things I you know work with
clients on all the time is it's

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all within us.
We just tend to hide it and one

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of the most impactful things
that happen for me was when I

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was working with my branding
strategist, at the time who

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happened to be helping me kind
of do some stuff on my I own

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speaking, we're kind of like,
trying to re-engineer everything

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because I'm like, I don't want
to just be known as the coming

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out coach, nothing wrong with
that, but I was starting to see

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there was a bigger footprint
that we started to happen.

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Right.
Sure.

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And then we've been working
together a few months and she's

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like, okay, well, you know,
let's erase everything.

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Like, are you kidding me?
We do this for months, right.

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But she's really smart in that
that thought because what came

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out of it was a few questions.
She said, so, Before all this

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happened for you like from
coming out to changing careers,

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all this sort of stuff.
She goes, what was one of the

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things that you really getting
tired of?

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I said I was tired of
apologizing for wanting to be

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who I wanted to be in the world.
I said not started when I was in

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college and follow the career
path.

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That really wasn't what I wanted
but to please my parents.

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I kind of went down that path.
She's okay.

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She has.
But why didn't you do that?

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Why was that the paths?
You chose and I said, because I

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was afraid.
Everything was about fear, I was

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afraid to come out.
I was afraid to change, you

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know, my academic pathway.
I was afraid to like, you know,

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step away from a career that was
paying.

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I mean I literally thought about
being a coach and doing all this

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the year that I switched into my
last big corporate job.

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I had just landed that job.
And sudden.

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Who helped us do a merger.
And in that merger, I hired an

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executive coach to slay.
The egos in the room.

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Like, literally, there was a
bunch of c-suite errs and I'm

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like, okay, not also more, I
think I'm sorry.

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I think we might have gotten cut
off.

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You said tell me more about the
merger.

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You said this was a merger at
the court.

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Yeah, so yeah.
So we when I got hired I had

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never been in technology, but I
had worked for a hospitality

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company that was using this
particular technique.

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Ecology.
And the guy who was training all

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of us on, he goes, so you
looking for a job I'm like, no,

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he goes really, I'm like no and
goes because you're really good

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at what you did here.
I'm like, oh, thank you and he

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goes, are you sure?
I'm like, no, I'm okay here and

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you guys, okay, well to not even
two days.

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Later later that afternoon, I
get this call from the vice

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president marketing at the
software company, that ended up

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going to.
And she's like, I'm looking for

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a director of marketing.
I heard you were really good at

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this and I think you might be
really good.

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I'm like, okay, but I'm not
really Looking just have lunch

225
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with me.
Well, rest was history.

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I got hired, but the moment we
got in there, we were actually

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merging three companies.
I'm like y'all did y'all didn't

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tell me this?
What I was stepping into and I

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hired an executive coach to help
us through that.

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Well, as soon as I met this
executive coach, I'm like this

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is kind of interesting.
This, you know, this is like the

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third coach that was really
present in my life.

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I wasn't coaching for me but I'm
like, I'd really like to do

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that.
Well, I didn't and then if you

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Later, when I came out, it's
like, well, I okay, I'm done

236
00:11:57,700 --> 00:11:59,600
here.
I took a golden Parachute from

237
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the company.
Not because I came out of the

238
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closet, but I helped get that
merger down and then I helped

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start the next merge and I'm
like, I'm out of here.

240
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See it, right?
And I'm like, well, I should be

241
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a coach, but then now I'm going
through divorce, I'm trying to

242
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manage this.
So again I'm making excuses and

243
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apologizing for everything I
can't do.

244
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,100
Yeah.
Only when I got laid off the

245
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next time, I'm like, okay no
more apologies and that was the

246
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first time I actually said that
in my own head.

247
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It didn't verbalize.
Yeah.

248
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Then roll forward to when this
whole new transition of I don't

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want to just be known as the
coming out coach.

250
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I don't just want to be stuck in
this space as we unpack that.

251
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Well, you didn't want to
apologize anymore.

252
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Are you are afraid?
And she finally asked the

253
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question, what kept you?
You know, what kept you

254
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,000
apologizing and afraid?
I'm like because I could come up

255
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,800
with every excuse in the world.
Why?

256
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,900
I could do what I wanted to do
and she got really quiet and she

257
00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:56,800
goes so I think your brand is
about helping people work

258
00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,900
through their excuses, get rid
of their fears and something

259
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:05,600
about being no more apologies.
Just and I said hold on.

260
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She said wait, I said hold on.
Is it what if it was?

261
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No, no excuses.
No fears, no, apologies and she

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goes.
Yeah, our could be Unapologetic.

263
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And I'm like that actually works
because I was changing the

264
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podcast.
I want to change the podcast

265
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name from just being the coming
out Lounge to something that

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broader and suddenly it's like,
well the podcast could be life

267
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,200
on closeted and then we have the
brand of no fears, no excuses,

268
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no apologies.
And suddenly we just like domino

269
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effect, like everything started
falling into place where This is

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a solid ground.
This is something I could do.

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She goes, you could do this with
a lot of people.

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I said I think so she goes what
you're going to just use the

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metaphor coming out of the
closet.

274
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She goes, it might be a little
hard selling some audiences but

275
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she goes, you don't have to sell
it that way.

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00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,500
You could say, how do you build
an Unapologetic team?

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What are the things you got to
do?

278
00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,600
Uhn Uhn closet?
Your team to be more productive,

279
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,600
more Innovative, dada dada.
What do you need to do to help

280
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,800
someone talk about being
bipolar, or depressed or what?

281
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I'm like?
Okay, well, now you're speaking

282
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my language because I I have
suffered with my own Journey,

283
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,900
depression.
Yeah, even though I didn't know

284
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:10,900
it for a long, long time.
And I was a, I was at made.

285
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Sure about this for so many.
Yeah.

286
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,300
Yeah, that's kind of how
everything started to topple

287
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together and hey, all I can tell
your listeners is as it topples

288
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:23,500
together.
It actually is, what starts to

289
00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,800
build you back up.
You gotta let it all toppled a

290
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,800
on seeing like see the rubble
right and I, okay now what that

291
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,600
doesn't mean you gotta go Dive
Into Darkness per se.

292
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,200
I believe in honoring the
Journey of let the stuff

293
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,000
crumbled, it needs to crumble so
that you can like, literally

294
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,800
kind of be the Phoenix and rise
out of it.

295
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,300
Yeah, no.
That's that's an incredible

296
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,100
journey.
Yeah, I mean, I can apply this

297
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,400
to my own life.
I mean, obviously, I'm married

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00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,900
kids, but I do feel that Shelly
and I, with our journey, there

299
00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:58,800
was a bit of a nun closet thing
because we were living in this

300
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:05,700
closet, which was the template
of the house in the The career

301
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,200
and financial services, the MBA
from a top school.

302
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,800
The kids, you know, just
everything picture perfect.

303
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,800
But as you know, there was a lot
of trouble Brewing underneath

304
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,100
the surface.
It was because I was living this

305
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:24,200
lie, which was denying that I
had bipolar disorder and having

306
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,300
to live with the implications of
that, which is just basically

307
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,200
pushing things down and not
going to get the right

308
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,100
treatment.
You know, because I was in

309
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:37,000
therapy, I was was taking
medication but and we can talk

310
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,100
about this as well.
It's important to find the right

311
00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:43,000
therapist.
And for me, what I was doing was

312
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,800
I was I was going to find
therapist who would basically

313
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,200
stroke my ego and, you know, as
I'm losing a job, it's like I'm

314
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,600
talking about, you know, writing
a blog post or speaking in a

315
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,100
conference even though, you
know, like practically speaking.

316
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:02,000
I was doing everything in
complete violation of, you know,

317
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,800
what I would need to do to
provide for my wife.

318
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:06,300
Even kids.
So I was on this journey to

319
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:08,400
destruction.
So can you talk a little bit

320
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,000
more about just different forms
of like the sun closeted life?

321
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,600
Because like, I'd say, mental
health is another good example

322
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,700
for me, but maybe for people who
want to understand the analogy,

323
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:22,900
a little bit more, because I
think she wants it clicks.

324
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:27,700
It can be so powerful.
Well, I'm going to start by

325
00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:31,100
saying, it's actually, when you
start to look at what's going on

326
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,700
in your life.
Yeah, through a series of

327
00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:36,100
detours.
And so that's the reason why

328
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,600
company picnic detour, right?
Well, okay.

329
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,600
All I'm going to do the
confession to your audience.

330
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,800
I was drinking wine 19.
Like I need a company name.

331
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,900
I'm tired of going to these
conferences where they're like

332
00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:49,600
let your company name.
I'm like Rick Clemens.

333
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:51,800
Okay.
And then they'd put my badge.

334
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:52,800
Rick Clemens?
Rick Clemens.

335
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,200
I'm like okay that looks pretty
stupid.

336
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,100
So finally yeah.
I literally was drinking wine at

337
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,600
a wine bar one night.
I saw this other wine bottle

338
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,800
said left detour I'm like, well
that's an interesting why name

339
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,000
and I suddenly like wait what if
my company was called perfect

340
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,300
detour because everything that's
happened in my world, has been

341
00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:13,400
the perfect detour to get me
where I'm going and and you ask

342
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,800
me if the top of the
conversation like was something

343
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,200
I kind of live by I live by
that.

344
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,700
Everything is a perfect detour.
It's guiding me to the next

345
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,900
thing and and it gives me that
hope that You know, a lot of

346
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,099
people say, what's happening to
you, is happening for you?

347
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:30,600
Yes, I get that too, but I like
to look at it through the

348
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,100
perfect detour space.
So as everything started to

349
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:40,300
move, That's when my own
personal Depression started to

350
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:43,900
rare its ugly head.
Sure this is not something I'm

351
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:45,500
proud of either.
I mean there's a lot of stuff.

352
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,800
I'm not proud of I'm not proud
of being a guy who cheats on his

353
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,100
wife for pretty much the entire
marriage.

354
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:53,500
I'm not proud of a lot of things
about coming out.

355
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:56,300
I'm not proud of yelling at
people like just for can accept

356
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,800
me and you know go pound sand
and not proud of any of that,

357
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,100
right?
And in the midst of it, I was

358
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,300
not proud of telling my now
ex-wife get over it.

359
00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:11,600
Go get some help.
I was not proud of telling my

360
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:20,000
mother the same thing and then
it was probably a good 12 years

361
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:25,700
or so.
Yeah, probably. 2012-2013.

362
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:29,300
That suddenly I'm like
something's not right here.

363
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:32,600
Sometimes with me I have always
been mr.

364
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,200
Happy dude this be that but
underneath you're taking this

365
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,600
you were taking this like stiff
upper lip.

366
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,300
Oh yeah totally like just go
just because I'm that guy that

367
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,200
like okay just tell him.
Okay let's go let's go I still

368
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,500
in that guy I'm like hey what do
we need to do go right and then

369
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:57,300
suddenly I'm like I tried
testosterone not because Because

370
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,100
I was having any problems
downstairs, but I was just like

371
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,300
I wasn't feeling myself and then
I finally talked to someone.

372
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,200
Well, my position then referred
me to a therapist that actually

373
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,800
I didn't like this therapist at
all.

374
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:13,200
What was your experience with
therapy?

375
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,800
Like before that had you taken a
dismissive few know I was you

376
00:19:17,808 --> 00:19:22,300
very before, what was yeah.
Now I was very supportive.

377
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:25,800
In fact the irony of the whole
therapy Journey out of the

378
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,400
closet was Was so, my ex-wife
and I started working through

379
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,000
therapy, kind of in a weird way
to like, what can we Salvage

380
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,700
here?
I knew there wasn't anything to

381
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:36,000
silage because I'm gay.
I'm gay.

382
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,400
That's, that's it.
But I did want to salvage was,

383
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,000
how do we create a relationship
that works?

384
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,500
You know, not staying together
and all that.

385
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,600
And so we had a really good
therapist until it wasn't a good

386
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,800
therapist.
Because me and the therapists,

387
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:54,000
like could really connect and I
could take in what she was

388
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:59,800
helping us do.
And and To my wife, my ex-wife

389
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,700
Journey.
She's bipolar and said that

390
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:03,600
wasn't that didn't show up till
years later.

391
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,600
Either in the midst of that
therapy, she got upset and said

392
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,300
I'm done, I'm not, you all are
against me.

393
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,100
Blah blah blah blah blah.
Was it true?

394
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:16,700
It that was just perception.
So then I continued and

395
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:21,000
ironically the therapist female.
I finally said to her one day.

396
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,600
I said you really seem to get me
like you really get this and I

397
00:20:25,608 --> 00:20:28,200
said, is there a particular
Reason why?

398
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,000
And she just kind of laughed.
I'm like, why are you laughing?

399
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,400
Why are you laughing at me?
Yeah and she goes because I've

400
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,900
been on this journey, my
ex-husband's gay and I was like

401
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,900
okay so that helped and I've
been through my own Journey with

402
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:44,900
therapy and stuff.
Right.

403
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,700
And I've hit some that, I'm
like, doesn't work because it

404
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:49,500
was too much.
Well, let's just talk it out.

405
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:51,700
Let's just talk it out of my
talk helps.

406
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:54,100
I'm not going to say, it doesn't
that definitely is something you

407
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,300
need, even in coaching, there's
sometimes you just coaching, you

408
00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:59,100
gotta like, okay, so you said
this now, what do you want to

409
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,800
do?
You got a tease it out, you got

410
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,500
a t-shirt to tease it out,
whereas in therapy, I realize

411
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:06,100
it's a lot more stepping back
like let's unravel things and

412
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:11,400
I'm so glad that I did unravel a
ton of stuff and then I hit the

413
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,900
one therapist like there was no
match and I'm like, I think the

414
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,900
reason for me that it wasn't a
match is I could sense that this

415
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:23,100
person wasn't completely on
board with me being gay and I'm

416
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:26,800
like, okay to each their own.
When I finally got the therapist

417
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,200
around the depression, I'm like,
he really gets me The moment for

418
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,000
me was when he said you're
holding a whole lot of stuff in

419
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,800
and he goes we're going to work
on getting that stuff released.

420
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,800
And as a coach I'm like, yep.
I get that.

421
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:44,000
And then as we started working
through it, one day during

422
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,200
session, he goes because I would
like for you to entertain the

423
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,700
concept that you might actually
be suffering from depression.

424
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,200
Okay, I got that point.
You didn't have a diagnosis.

425
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,300
I did not have a diagnosis, and
I got really pissed off in that.

426
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,900
I'm like, no, trust me.
Yeah, because, you know, here,

427
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:06,400
I'd been bashing my mom.
I now ex-wife, you know, all

428
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,400
this sort of stuff and literally
the next day and ago, I couldn't

429
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:12,900
even get out of bed.
Wow.

430
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,600
Cuz I'm like, well, this was
this was after he this was after

431
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,200
he raised.
Yeah.

432
00:22:17,208 --> 00:22:19,800
This was after something raise
my flag, right?

433
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,200
And I was like, oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.

434
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,600
This is, this is my truth and I
went, I went saw it while I saw

435
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,300
him and then he referred to Me
too.

436
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,400
Back to my doctor and said,
let's get you on some meds.

437
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,200
I was really fighting that but I
did it.

438
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,600
I took a really low dosage.
I can't even tell you what I was

439
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,100
on.
I immediately got back into

440
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:45,500
Super like exercising.
I mean, I was already

441
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,900
exercising, I was teaching spin
class and all that, but I got

442
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:51,900
really super dedicated to like
walking away from work, being

443
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:55,900
fresh starting to really speak
my mind to my husband's

444
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:57,300
detriment.
Sometimes he's like, okay,

445
00:22:57,300 --> 00:22:58,900
enough of this speaking your
mind, man.

446
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:05,000
It Got me a huge lesson.
Eating my Humble Pie is not only

447
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,300
as a person, but especially as a
man.

448
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,100
Yes, eyes were like, nope.
Let's go.

449
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,700
We can make this happen.
We can do this.

450
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:13,000
We can be.
Yeah.

451
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,900
And then in my own gay
community, it helped me really

452
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:23,300
begin to understand so many, so
many people and even gave me

453
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:25,900
insight to some of the guys that
I was coaching at that time.

454
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,600
Like, this is like a prevalent
thing.

455
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,700
And then about that same time,
my ex-wife.

456
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:36,500
Diagnosed as bipolar and I'm
like, hey gang, do you think

457
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:40,700
this is what's going on with me
and you know it wasn't but it

458
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:44,800
gave me a huge, huge respect for
wow.

459
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,500
So you ask the question, how do
we get to the on closeted thing

460
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:51,200
with like this becoming a whole
part of the sequence?

461
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,400
I changed the name of the
podcast to life on closeted from

462
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,800
the coming out Lounge because I
knew there was a couple of

463
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,500
people.
I really wanted to interview

464
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,100
Chris Brogan being one of those.
That, you know, you said it on

465
00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:08,700
the morrow, actually I met Chris
through a series of things and

466
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,300
we were at an event once and we
were talking I said, you know, I

467
00:24:11,308 --> 00:24:14,300
know this would be kind of crazy
but I think it'd be kind of cool

468
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,000
for you to talk about who you
are, and how you on clauses

469
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,800
yourself to be.
This really amazing social media

470
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,300
marketing expert, blah, blah
blah.

471
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,300
He's like totally.
And then he goes, yes.

472
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,600
You know, I have, you know, I
have a kid that's trans and all

473
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,900
this, I'm like, wow, really?
And of course, the whole things

474
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:31,200
and he goes and then some other
stuff.

475
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,700
And since then Kristen I have
talked His own Journey on

476
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:36,600
depression and everything and it
started opening doors because

477
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,000
then the next few, guess I'm
like, well, I'm gonna stay true

478
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,300
to my community.
But I think my community needs

479
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:46,800
to hear some of this too.
Like we don't own the market on

480
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,500
being in the closet and then I
started having other people on

481
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:54,600
the show and like one of the
people that was on the show she

482
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,600
was the last survivor pulled out
of the Oklahoma City bombing and

483
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,500
it changes remembering
perilously.

484
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,800
Yeah.
And then suddenly other people

485
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,300
started showing up in
interesting ways and then part

486
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,300
of my circle of influence you
know I started having some

487
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:13,400
pretty cool people on that.
Had nothing to do with being

488
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,300
lgbtq and I'm like I love this
because now we're telling lots

489
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:21,200
of interesting stories and
coming from lots of different

490
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,000
directions and I just did a
couple of interviews with some

491
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,500
people about, you know, coming
out about how to be you know

492
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:33,000
functional use functional
nutrition in your world and how

493
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,600
that that particular interview
she's actually very focused.

494
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,500
She's a straight woman who's a
functional nutritionist and

495
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,400
she's very focused on helping
the Community like really

496
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,600
navigate their transitions.
Making sure that they use the

497
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,200
right nutrition.
So I feel so blessed.

498
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,400
I feel like I've opened a new
channel.

499
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:54,800
Yes, I stay true to the
community.

500
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,400
Yeah.
When I really look at what are

501
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,900
the kind of conversations, I am
blessed to get to have.

502
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:06,300
It's amazing because everybody's
closeted in some way in their

503
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,100
life, right?
They just don't see it through

504
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:11,100
that lens.
What you're doing is really

505
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:13,600
incredible night.
I love the fact that it's a very

506
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,100
inclusive platform that you have
here, because it doesn't

507
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:21,000
necessarily have to be, you
know, specific to what your

508
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,900
experience was.
I mean, this can, this can

509
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:26,000
really be a universal thing,
you're podcasting, you know,

510
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,600
you've got some really great
insights on their you were

511
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,900
talking about fixing a
microphone or something.

512
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:35,600
And you accidentally superglued
yourself to the microphone and I

513
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,300
like the concept that you
alluded to their about super

514
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,600
gluing your life.
Can you talk to me a little bit

515
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,900
more?
About sort of how you address

516
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:47,900
that and maybe just unsupervised
in your life or getting getting

517
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:50,700
unstuck maybe for people who are
struggling with that problem.

518
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:56,000
Sure, it's so interesting
because as Anybody comes and

519
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,900
does this work with me and I'm a
lot, mostly a lot of gay men are

520
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,100
men coming out of the closet,
but I've coached a lot of women

521
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:06,300
not women coming out of the
closet and then, even as I

522
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:08,600
coach, okay?
So, even coaching speakers.

523
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,100
So let's kind of go there, so I
can really demonstrate.

524
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:13,900
This is so interesting to coach
speakers as they're building

525
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:16,900
their business and they're like,
all excited and okay, we help

526
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,100
him figure out who they're going
to speak to what they're going

527
00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:22,200
to speak on and right, well, you
know, the adrenaline starts

528
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,700
pumping and then okay.
Let's go build that 1st 2nd or

529
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:26,800
3rd, talk to like.
So you have something to sell,

530
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,400
right?
And then we get to go do the fun

531
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,800
stuff of like let's get that
website and then as soon as the

532
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,000
website gets done and we have
to, we need a demo video.

533
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,700
I don't really like myself on
camera.

534
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,800
I don't know how to do that, but
you know, whatever speaker and

535
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,800
you want to be a speaker and
then suddenly it's like, okay,

536
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,900
so now we're going to start
reaching out to try to get gigs

537
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,200
and literally screeching halt.
Yeah, because it goes from being

538
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:54,400
fun.
And fantasy to reality.

539
00:27:55,700 --> 00:28:00,500
And everybody's Journey, this is
where the super glue.

540
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,400
Like oh this I had it all super
glued together.

541
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:08,500
Oh, I'm so excited to go be a
speaker and do all this stuff

542
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:14,000
and now it's like we got to
undiluted area into the next

543
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,700
thing we got to move past it, we
got to take some risks, we got

544
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:21,500
to put ourselves out there and
like why me why am I the person

545
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:26,100
that somebody's going to listen
to, and you, Back to that

546
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:27,900
analogy.
I've used that in lots of

547
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:29,900
different ways.
In fact, I used it a week or so

548
00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:33,400
ago with the student in the
other program and I said, you've

549
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,400
got things so tightly glued
together.

550
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,800
You don't even know how to relax
into being a speaker.

551
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,600
Like I said, what was they
wanted to slap me through the

552
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,800
zoom.
I'm like, let me tell you why I

553
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,600
said that because as long as
you're that glued up, so to

554
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,200
speak and I'm like, literally it
is super glue that's holding you

555
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,800
together right now.
But until you release a little

556
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400
bit and go, let's relax into it.
It doesn't have to be perfect.

557
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,400
It doesn't have to you don't
have to make this your first

558
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,100
time out.
You don't have to have the

559
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:06,900
biggest audience as soon as you
relax into this and start having

560
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,000
fun with this and realize yes
this is work.

561
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,800
There's nothing about being a
speaker or coach or there's not

562
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,500
about doing anything we do in
life for our career that isn't

563
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:18,200
work right?
And suddenly she is like Oh

564
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,600
you're right.
This is going to be work.

565
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,500
I'm like yes but it can be fun
work because the payoff is you

566
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:28,300
get to be on a stage.
You get to look out at 25, 25

567
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:33,000
thousand people and tell and
share something that's going to

568
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,500
have impact.
Even if it only has impact with

569
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,100
one person, even what we're
doing today, if only one person

570
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:43,000
listening walks away and like
that changed my world.

571
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,400
Yeah, I'm going to do the happy
dance.

572
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,800
Yeah, you guys maybe for them
seeing Through this lens of.

573
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,800
Oh I never thought about it.
I'm in a closet and I'm letting

574
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,200
myself come out of the closet to
go start a business or go lose

575
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,100
weight or go run the marathon or
I'm going to come out of the

576
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:03,200
closet that I just don't feel
good and I'm actually depressed.

577
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:08,900
These are all different ways to
unglue yourself from the thing

578
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:11,800
that you need.
And I even said to somebody

579
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,100
probably about a month or two
ago, I'm like, you have

580
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:18,000
superglued yourself into this
closet and you're not coming

581
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
out.
It's not happening because that

582
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,700
glue is so tight.
What do I do then?

583
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:25,400
I'm like I want you to imagine
that super glue doesn't exist,

584
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,300
then what Yeah.
And they got really quiet.

585
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:31,100
Yeah.
And it changed, I don't, I don't

586
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:34,400
know the exact studies, but they
say like a lot of times, you

587
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,200
know, prisoners, they get
released and the recidivism rate

588
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,200
is very high, is because it's
like, you know, you've been

589
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,000
living in this lockdown world
and you don't have no freedom in

590
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,500
anything.
But in essence, it can almost be

591
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:51,700
comforting because it's routine
and it's, it's structured and

592
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:55,100
it's the known and then it's
like of your cut free and you

593
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:59,900
have the world of Bilities,
that, that light, that's that

594
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,000
glaring, light can be very
overwhelming and so that's why

595
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,100
the recidivism rate is so high.
That's why people, you know, end

596
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:09,900
up going back to.
Well, this is why so many people

597
00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:13,600
second-guess people
second-guess, everything I have

598
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,500
students in the speaker lab, who
second guess being a speaker.

599
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:19,900
Once they get to a certain
point, I have people who have

600
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:22,100
like, okay, this is the, this is
the week.

601
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,600
I'm going to have that big
conversation with a spouse that

602
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:27,200
I'm gay and I need to come out
Of the closet.

603
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,400
And and then suddenly they
either get to it.

604
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800
They're like not happening or
they have it.

605
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,600
And then, oh my gosh, what did I
do?

606
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:39,100
My whole world's turned inside
out upside down?

607
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,500
I had a student lat, not this
year last year, who like okay,

608
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:44,200
this is the week.
I'm resigning from my job.

609
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,500
I'm doing I'm going Full Tilt
into being a speaker.

610
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:52,100
I'm like Cool.
Are you sure you're ready and

611
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:55,000
like literally two weeks later?
She's like I wish I hadn't done

612
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,900
that and we work through it.
We worked through it and she's

613
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:02,200
now amazing but it's not
uncommon the moment you commit

614
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,700
to like I'm going to come out of
the closet and I'm going to go

615
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,700
commit to every day doing some
form of exercise two weeks from

616
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:14,700
now not saying it's going to be
exactly two weeks from now but

617
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:16,900
that's pretty typical about two
weeks from now.

618
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:18,800
You're going to be.
I'm so over this exercise.

619
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,800
Team.
Yeah, then what do you need to

620
00:32:20,808 --> 00:32:22,400
do?
You need to change it up.

621
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,800
You need to.
Like I'm not going to lift

622
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,400
weights today.
I'm just going to go take a walk

623
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:27,500
or maybe you're lifting, you're
taking walks in.

624
00:32:27,508 --> 00:32:29,300
You're like today, I'm going to
go, I'm gonna go.

625
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:31,400
I'm gonna go swim.
I haven't swam in years, but I'm

626
00:32:31,408 --> 00:32:34,100
gonna go swim.
Find something that changes it

627
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:36,700
up when people get to this
space, like it like guys who've

628
00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:39,600
just come out of the closet.
They're like, I wish this hadn't

629
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,100
happened, I've been trying to
date.

630
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:43,100
I've been trying to like meet
guys.

631
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:46,900
I'm like then take a week off,
like literally take a week off

632
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:48,400
and don't even worry about
finding mr.

633
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,100
Right?
Right?

634
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,900
Yeah, because it soon as you can
change and break the pattern

635
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,800
which is really, I mean this is
what I feel like I do in my own

636
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,900
mental health when the when I
know the depression is starting

637
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:03,300
to come in, and I don't take any
meds at this stage.

638
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:06,400
I pretty much have learned to
self manage it.

639
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,600
I'm glad you're glad, you're
bringing this up because I was

640
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,400
actually where I was going to
go.

641
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,100
Next is sort of going back to
the depression.

642
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,500
Like right, how what does it
look like for you?

643
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,300
I mean, in terms of day-to-day
and like, how do you manage So

644
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:22,000
maybe if yeah, I'm glad.
Yeah, so when I get to that

645
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,700
space, the first thing I do is
like, okay, what do I need to do

646
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,700
differently today?
Mmm, because it's easy for all

647
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:30,400
of us to get into a routine.
I mean, I can be selling along

648
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,800
for a month 60 days.
I went through a little bit.

649
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,400
Well, just recently, I went
through a small dip because my

650
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,300
oldest daughter moved from
California to Seattle

651
00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:46,600
Washington.
So, she'd been living in the

652
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,800
state close enough for us to
like two and a 3:30, our drives

653
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,600
all the time and I was like,
okay cool.

654
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,400
I knew it was happening.
I'm like totally supportive of

655
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,800
it and I went and like helped
him pack up their truck and

656
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,600
everything.
And I even watched him like

657
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,800
drive out and I didn't know
tears or anything and then home.

658
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,199
I'm like, okay this really
happened started to hit you.

659
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,400
Yeah, it started to hit me and
so the next day I was like,

660
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,500
okay, here's what I need.
I need to just have some quiet

661
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,699
time.
I need to like, go do something.

662
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:21,400
Slightly different than I would
normally on a weekend because it

663
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,400
was a weekend.
Normally, I'd go hike or

664
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,900
something like, you know what,
maybe what I just need to do

665
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:29,300
this weekend isn't set to go
high.

666
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:31,900
Go get out and just get out and
go anywhere.

667
00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:35,000
It doesn't have to be physical
and so we did.

668
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,800
We just kind of got out and I
didn't really talk a whole lot

669
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,900
about it with my husband,
because I'm like, I know

670
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:44,400
sometimes what the best way for
me to manage it is to not talk

671
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,699
about it.
By the time it's like if I feel

672
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:50,100
like, hey I gotta talk this
through, then I will talk about

673
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:51,500
it.
Do I always go to my husband?

674
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,100
No, there's other people.
I will go to and lean into when

675
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:58,800
these things happen but part of
the help for me is a, I know

676
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,000
exercise will always help me.
I always watch what I eat at

677
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000
that point.
Like, really, like not like

678
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:08,000
donate this but there are
certain things I know if I, if I

679
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,200
like.
And I don't eat a lot of sugar

680
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,400
these days, but if I were like,
hey, it's my one day that I'm

681
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,100
going to have like, some good
chocolate.

682
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,300
Gay.
Yeah, sugar-free chocolate.

683
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:19,400
It's like okay, that can have an
effect.

684
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,400
I know alcohol can have an
effect.

685
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,900
So if I feel that coming on, I
don't not drink, but I

686
00:35:24,908 --> 00:35:28,300
definitely like, okay, instead
of like drinking a really like,

687
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:31,600
well I don't drink cocktails a
lot, but I do love my bourbon

688
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,900
every once in awhile definitely
wouldn't drink bourbon on those

689
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,300
days.
Probably wouldn't drink a big

690
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:38,700
red wine.
I'll drink like a, like, you

691
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:42,100
know, Chardonnay or Rose a and
call it good.

692
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,500
Well, I drink more than one
probably not because I can Feel

693
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,800
what's happening?
And to me anything that I can

694
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,800
put into my body, I can also
take out of my body by just not

695
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,600
getting it in.
So do you feel like your list?

696
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,700
You're listening to your body a
little bit more now than

697
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:58,500
definitely the past, maybe?
Yep.

698
00:35:58,700 --> 00:35:59,600
Yep.
Yep.

699
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,700
You know, I can, I can feel it
coming on.

700
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:05,500
So as I shared with you before
we started recording, we're

701
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:07,400
getting ready to go on vacation
to Costa Rica.

702
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:11,600
Yeah, I love travel.
I've been trying to, like trying

703
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,300
to find some swimsuits, and I am
getting really frustrated

704
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:18,500
because I had Lost some weight
but ya can't seem to find thing

705
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:22,800
that isn't still like, okay the
big guy and I'm a big guy, I'm

706
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,300
64.
Yeah, like right at 300 pounds,

707
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:31,900
I mean I'm big guy and I reached
the one week ago, like, oh my

708
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:35,800
God, I'm I've got one swimsuit
for this entire trip, which

709
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,000
isn't bad, but it's like, but
it's like seven days, you know,

710
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,400
and you're in the ocean, then
you're in the pool, it's like my

711
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,000
suit, my suit is going to just
be toast, right?

712
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:45,900
Right.
Right?

713
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,300
And I could feel the like
pressure start and I'm like okay

714
00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:53,400
but you got one suit as soon as
I change not like you got a

715
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,400
suit.
Yeah, it's okay.

716
00:36:55,700 --> 00:37:00,300
And you will find something I
learned to like I'm not going to

717
00:37:00,308 --> 00:37:03,000
say quickly, get out of my own
head and out of my own way.

718
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,700
But I also learn like Breathe in
slow down.

719
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,900
Sure.
Ask yourself.

720
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:12,700
Is this really something that
needs to take you to this space?

721
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:15,800
That's a biggie for me is like,
like do you need to really be

722
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,600
going into that head space and
then like I said, physical watch

723
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,800
what?
I'm eating getting some good

724
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,300
sleep or not getting some good
sleep too.

725
00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:25,500
Sometimes I'm like, when my
head's going, I'm like, fine,

726
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:28,400
lay in bed and watch some
stupid, Instagram videos or

727
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,300
watch video.
Not what you should probably do

728
00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:35,400
on a regular basis, but I give
myself permission to The

729
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,500
pattern.
And to me, that's a big thing.

730
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:41,700
How can I break the pattern and
get me out of that head space?

731
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,300
So those are my skin options if
you don't mind me asking, when

732
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:47,900
are you in therapy right now or
nope?

733
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,700
Nope, okay, no therapy.
I'm not on any medications right

734
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,900
now.
I'm lucky that I live in a

735
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:56,200
really beautiful area of
California.

736
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,700
We're right on the coast, not
on.

737
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:00,400
If I have the ocean view I have
a feeling that would that would

738
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,500
be the best therapy for me, but
I also like that, I, if I need

739
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,500
to get out Out and I mean, the
average temperature where I live

740
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:10,400
and dynamic, a lot of people
jealous right now, we

741
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,000
temperature glue degrees
year-round, what's the

742
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,400
temperature, year-round, 70, 70?
And we're literally I can be to

743
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,900
the beach.
If I got off this call right

744
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:22,700
now, I could be to the beach
five minutes from now.

745
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,400
So yeah.
That that helps.

746
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,100
And I know those are those
things that help.

747
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:29,300
I have a Peloton bike.
I know that getting on my

748
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:33,200
Peloton and doing a quick spin
ride because I used to teach

749
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,300
spin.
So that's a thing.

750
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:39,900
So, I On my mechanisms.
But if I ever felt like, I could

751
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,500
see that.
Oh, today, today if I Knew by

752
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:47,700
five days that it's like, this
is it, I would be back on those

753
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,600
meds immediately just because I
think it would be.

754
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,900
It's the thing that I know to do
for myself, I have a great

755
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:58,700
relationship with my doctor
where I could say, hey I'm

756
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:01,500
leaving doc a mess.
I think I'm going to go get on

757
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:03,900
my meds for a bit.
I just want him to know that if

758
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:08,300
there's any cautions around That
he would probably say cool

759
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:09,600
because we've had those
conversations.

760
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,400
He's like, yes, if you do but if
he, he says, if you're going to

761
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,800
get on, stay on him for at least
30 days, check in with me how

762
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,600
you feeling what you doing,
because he goes, you got to

763
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,100
build up, you know, you got to
build up the Basin again.

764
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:25,500
So yeah, that's the way I do it.
I'm not saying that's gonna work

765
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:30,100
for everybody but and I try to
like eliminate things that like

766
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:34,000
not saying, don't watch the
news, but I only watch the news

767
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,400
like once a day.
Yeah.

768
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,500
I don't let myself spiral in
this stuff.

769
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:43,400
Yeah yeah yeah you mentioned.
One thing that I really loved

770
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,100
and maybe we can talk a little
more about it was you said that

771
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:50,100
you said depression is my
superpower, not my shame and I'd

772
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:54,200
love that analogy because in our
society, I know we're getting

773
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,100
better but it's depression is
often seen as a weakness,

774
00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:59,400
especially in my culture and you
and I have talked about that

775
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,500
where it's just, you know, this
is just something that it's all

776
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,500
in your head you just got to
have some p.m.

777
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:06,200
EST pas.
Positive mental attitude and

778
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:08,800
it'll all be over with.
Can you talk a little more about

779
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,100
like, how is how is depression,
like your superpower for me?

780
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:14,700
It's the thing that keeps me
humble.

781
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,400
Sure.
Because I was such a, I was such

782
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,600
a jerk.
I mean, honestly, I was an

783
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,600
asshole to a lot of people about
that in my life and once I

784
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,800
realized, okay, this is
something for me.

785
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,400
And once I got the humility of,
this is what can wake me up.

786
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,800
Like it can literally like, hey,
you're, you're trying to go to

787
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:37,100
Are too fast.
You're letting too many things.

788
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:40,200
Get into your skin.
It's it is literally the thing

789
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,700
that empowers me, even though
it's okay, I'm not lying.

790
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:45,600
It can take me down, right?
Yeah.

791
00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:47,900
But the moment I can be taken
down.

792
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:50,500
It's also is the thing that I'm
like, this is my signal.

793
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:53,500
This is what you need to do.
This is how you need to start

794
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:57,100
showing up in life and that's
why I call it my superpower

795
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,000
because without it, I mean, and
I'm a guy who is already had a

796
00:41:01,008 --> 00:41:06,000
stroke in his life.
So, three years ago, 2000. 19,

797
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:11,300
it's almost 4 years ago.
Now, I had a stroke and I was

798
00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:14,200
really lucky 24 hours later.
I walked out of that hospital,

799
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,800
but knowing those sort of
things.

800
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:20,600
I would much rather use
depression as an empowering

801
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,800
experience rather than life ins
when you have depression.

802
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,400
Yeah, I'm not saying it's easy
to work through it, never going

803
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,900
to say, it's easy to work
through it.

804
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,100
But now that I've discovered
what's with in my arsenal of

805
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:38,900
superpower, Hits.
I can truly make a difference in

806
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:43,700
my own world in my own life
because I choose and I know for

807
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:46,700
a lot of people listening that
may sound really hard to do.

808
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,000
I'm not saying it's easy,
because you got to keep saying

809
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,300
to yourself.
But what if you did this?

810
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,500
What if you thought this?
What if you look to think, what

811
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:56,900
if you just embraced it?
Like, like sometimes it's just

812
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:58,700
let's Embrace.
This is where I am.

813
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:01,800
In fact, I have a client that I
work with where we talked about

814
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,900
this a lot because he suffers
from depression and anxiety and

815
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,900
And all this sort of stuff and I
feel one of the most humble

816
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:13,400
things I've been able to do in
his world which again serves me

817
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:18,500
is to help him Embrace his
mental illness.

818
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:24,000
I don't like just embrace it and
he's gotten so much less shame

819
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,800
around being on meds about how
he shows up about not losing

820
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,000
his, you know, stuff around
people.

821
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,500
It's been amazing to see that
and that's why I see it as a

822
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:36,300
superpower.
For me, I can be in one of my

823
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:40,000
spaces and some of my trigger
people can trigger me.

824
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,300
I just let that whole thing and
power me.

825
00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:47,400
The like, I'm not going to
react.

826
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,600
I may not even respond, most of
the time, I will respond, but

827
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,800
I'm not reacting here.
It's to me, that's a big thing.

828
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,100
When you have any kind of mental
illness to really like,

829
00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:59,000
understand what's going to cause
you to react versus heard.

830
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,400
How do you respond?
You know, and that's why I call

831
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,100
my superpower.
It's got.

832
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:06,100
Yes.
So it's taught me so much about

833
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:09,300
who I am.
And help me humble into.

834
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:13,200
Okay, when this hits for me,
lean into it.

835
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:16,800
Let it Live and Let It Light Me
Up versus take me down.

836
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,500
Mmm.
Yeah.

837
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,700
And then a little bit of what we
talked about before, but you

838
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:24,100
talked about, you know, with
exercise and eating right and

839
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:28,200
stuff, I think and we found this
in our life relationships can

840
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,100
be.
So important have you, how is

841
00:43:31,100 --> 00:43:34,700
that played in your experience?
You had a great piece about your

842
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:37,200
relationship with your father,
you know, further.

843
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:40,100
Putting that on the Shelf, can
you talk a little bit more about

844
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:43,400
some other how relationships
have played out in terms of like

845
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,200
how your been able to manager
depression, you know, in terms

846
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,000
of setting boundaries or putting
right in the saying that type of

847
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,600
thing?
Well, one of them is admitting

848
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,700
where you've been a jerk to
other people who've been through

849
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:57,700
this.
So there are like, really being

850
00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:05,000
honest with my, my mom and my
ex-wife being open to saying, I

851
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,700
mean, my husband knows like hey,
I'm feeling depressed today.

852
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:09,800
Yeah.
Okay.

853
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,700
Give me like a straight-up.
I've had I've been up front with

854
00:44:13,700 --> 00:44:16,400
my kids because obviously I'm
concerned too.

855
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,700
You know what genes genetically?
We have passed down to our girls

856
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:28,000
since both my ex-wife and I have
this in our own DNA, I have

857
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,200
friends I'm very open about this
at work you know in the speaker.

858
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,600
LaBrie NE everybody knows.
This is something that Rick

859
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,500
contends with I'm not afraid to
be that and I guess you know,

860
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:43,600
the kind of bring this somewhat
full circle it's because I

861
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:49,500
realized I hid in the closet
about one thing in my life that

862
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:52,000
taught me.
The lesson about never hiding

863
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,500
anything about, who you are now?
That doesn't mean I like.

864
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,900
So let me tell you why I'm
special, anybody here know,

865
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:01,900
right?
But I find the ways to like,

866
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:05,300
open up when I feel like this is
going to help me and it's really

867
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:07,000
going to help person who's
sitting there.

868
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,700
This helps somebody steamy I try
and sometimes I don't do a very

869
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:14,500
good job of this.
I try not to be someone who

870
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:17,200
grandstands I've Some people
have called that out.

871
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,900
I'm like, well, that's actually
about you and not about me

872
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:23,900
because sometimes when I talk on
stages I trigger people big

873
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:25,600
time.
Oh you're such a heat and all

874
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,600
this sort of stuff.
You don't care about your

875
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,900
ex-wife.
I want mmm actually I did and

876
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:34,400
you know you're taking one slice
of what you just heard that.

877
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:35,700
Could be a really triggering
thing.

878
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:38,400
That could push me into
depression like that.

879
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,100
But I learn if I manage.
So you brought up boundaries if

880
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:45,500
I manage the boundaries if I set
the boundaries.

881
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:49,500
He's if I manage my own
perception of what's being said

882
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:56,000
to me, I am much more able to be
how I want to show up and be who

883
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,300
I want to be in the world.
Is there anything you want to

884
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:01,900
say in?
Conclusion, to wrap things, up

885
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:05,600
about your Journeys, living, the
upon apologetic life, and also,

886
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,300
your journey with mental health
and depression.

887
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:12,100
I think the biggest thing is to
own your truth.

888
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,400
I mean, one of the things I say
at the end of every one of my

889
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,400
talks is the truth.
Who you are is far more powerful

890
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,900
than the false truth.
You're pretending to be so show

891
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:23,500
the world who you are, not
everyone's going to embrace

892
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:28,100
that, but I think hiding of any
type is actually one of the

893
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:31,400
worst things you can do for your
own mental health.

894
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,900
Even if you're like, okay, I'm
cheating on a spouse, okay?

895
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:37,900
It may mean the end of a
marriage but there's a reason

896
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:40,300
you're cheating.
There's a reason this is

897
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,100
happening.
So why hide it and put yourself

898
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:45,500
through that anxiety, and that
angst.

899
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,800
And it doesn't have to be
something as big as cheating.

900
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,100
But whatever you're hiding is
actually contributing to how

901
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,000
well you're managing your mental
health.

902
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,700
Thanks so much Rick.
So I've put your information

903
00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:01,400
down here at the bottom.
Rick Clemens.com is the best

904
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,800
website to get a hold of you.
You're on Instagram, Twitter,

905
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:08,600
LinkedIn, thank you for inviting
me here and letting me again

906
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,500
speak my truth.
And I hope someone listening is,

907
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:15,500
like, okay, I can do this, I can
be here whether it's live.

908
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,500
A polar or depression or any of
them spectrums of mental health

909
00:47:20,100 --> 00:47:22,200
go.
Bu that's the biggest message

910
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,300
and do it unapologetically.
Thanks again for having me.

911
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,800
Thanks so much Rick.
We really appreciate it.